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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 5:36:52 GMT
I had an SC-Custom Honey Burst and still have an SC-450 Plus Vintage Burst. I kept pictures of a Cherry Burst and an SC-550 Tobacco Flame from the same seller and put them all together for comparison. The flame on the SC-Custom was a little crisper while that on the SC-450 Plus is soft, somewhat blurry and that of the more expensive SC-550 is much clearer.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 5:49:17 GMT
The finishes are normally very good I have a TE70 black paisley and a JA60 sunburst they have excellent finishes apart from the corned beef looking pickguard on the JA60 (that I have grown to like). mattychaddy123 I don't think you will be disappointed with the custom.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 6:10:06 GMT
No lovely pickguard on the modern looking models. That should make the difference, shouldn't it?
I wonder if the graphite nut on the SC-Custom would make a significant difference. It is bone on the SC-550 and Unspecified Plasticky Stuff® on the cheaper SC-450 Plus. I am usually very sceptical of fancy upgrades but given the stupid headstock design with angled strings, it might. On the other hand, a plastic nut ought to be easily filed if too tight and pencil graphite in the slots would help further.
I just did a bending test on my SC-450 Plus and it went all out of tune. Yes, especially the G string. I did heavy bends on the highest four strings, Strings have been on it for months so they ought not to be the problem, but I kept going and it gradually stopped. So either it was the strings or we have a Smart Nut, one that learns and adapts to the player (I don't bend, so it never had to). Or it's in the tuners. Whatever it is, it not longer moves at all. Impressive.
So there we have it, the better nut won't fix what isn't broken.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 6:18:36 GMT
You may well be right about nuts LeoThunder. The bone nut is cut very well on my 550 and so is the plastic one (I think it's plastic) on my epiphone. I will eventually change that to a bone nut. But if it ain't broke I don't see the need to fix it. The tuning on both my LP's is pretty stable and I do bend quite often. PS there is no pickguard on the 550 does that make it modern?
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 6:28:27 GMT
PS there is no pickguard on the 550 does that make it modern? Nah. Looks more like a shirtless old man to me…
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 6:42:15 GMT
PS there is no pickguard on the 550 does that make it modern? Nah. Looks more like a shirtless old man to me… Old is gold, so they say 😜
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 6:55:29 GMT
You may well be right about nuts LeoThunder . The bone nut is cut very well on my 550 and so is the plastic one (I think it's plastic) on my epiphone. I will eventually change that to a bone nut. But if it ain't broke I don't see the need to fix it. The tuning on both my LP's is pretty stable and I do bend quite often. Bone can be brittle and break. Plastic is not so if it is cut properly, keeping it may be the better option. I don't have much respect for prejudiced fools who make fantasised claims on quality based on price, so I try things out. I know now, after a good 15 minutes of heavy bending, that the cheap nut on my guitar is just fine, at least in that respect. I also know it was well cut because I could take the action way down on this guitar, albeit after levelling a few frets. This is another test I made, going systematically with a fret rocker over all my guitars along all their strings and taking notes. I could observe that my Ibanez were all perfect, as well as my Schecter, while the Harley Benton were not, especially the cheaper ones. It's easily fixed but had to be done. I have done the exact same with the Cheap Junk bridge on my ST-62's. Henning was so dismissive about it, not even demonstrating what he said would obviously happen that I tried it and proved him wrong. Once I lubricated nut and string trees, the bridge behaved well enough. I have no reason to dismiss 6-point Strat' bridges nor the thin block that comes with cheap guitars. I also tested sustain and these do just fine. That whole thing about block size is just another myth. Tuners come next: those on my two ST-62 are stiff, unpleasant to turn. That's a flaw but they do the job. Those on the SC-450 Plus are better in this respect, smoother. All have a 15:1 ratio which is at the bottom of the scale but that's perfectly acceptable. The Grover on my SC-7 feel much better and the 18:1 ratio is an upgrade. I remember those on the SC-Custom were just as nice. It's a little luxury I value but nothing more. All the common "crappy cheap" die cast tuners I have on other guitars are just fine, really. I would never replace any of them.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 7:43:44 GMT
I make you right on the tuners LeoThunder the chaep ones work fine but the expensive ones are nicer and appear to fine tune a little easier. Depends on the quality of the bone if it's brittle or not. I believe it can take more punishment than the plastic type (but there are different grades of plastic). I have filed bone, plastic and brass nuts. Plastic is the easiest to work by far, my only concern with plastic types nuts is the high E and B strings can cut into it if if bending and whammy bars are used (excessively). And yes lubrication and graphite can help prevent this from happening. I have shaped bone nut blanks for both LP and strat type nuts. It is an awful lot of work and the smell is awful but worth it. Brass was not that bad but I did the majority of sanding on a bench sander. Plastic was a 5 minute job. I don't tend to call people fools because they don't agree with my opinion. I would rather have a bone nut than plastic In my opinion bone is harder than plastic, again there good quality plastic nuts and ****e ones. Brass I'm not really sure of as I fitted it to a friends guitar but he appears happy with it and has no problems. I can't speak of graphite nuts as I have no experience with them. To me if it works for you great I'm happy for you. Like the brass nut for my friend, he asked if I could do it for him so I obliged. Would I fit a brass nut to one of my guitars? Probably not but that does not make them bad. I use 10 and 1/2 strings on my LP's I like them that way it may not work for others. With the shorter scale it feels like it has a little more tension in the low strings. Again this is only my opinion. I'm open to any ideas or opinions whether I use them or not does not mean they are good or bad. I'll use what works for me or what I think is best for me. As with a lot of things there are no right or wrong.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 10:03:43 GMT
To me if it works for you great I'm happy for you. Like the brass nut for my friend, he asked if I could do it for him so I obliged. Would I fit a brass nut to one of my guitars? Probably not but that does not make them bad. I use 10 and 1/2 strings on my LP's I like them that way it may not work for others. With the shorter scale it feels like it has a little more tension in the low strings. Again this is only my opinion. I'm open to any ideas or opinions whether I use them or not does not mean they are good or bad. I'll use what works for me or what I think is best for me. As with a lot of things there are no right or wrong. When it comes to reviewers publicly spewing opinion forming nonsense that can be proven wrong, it's not a case of "if stupidity makes you happy, good for you". Preferences in string gauge are just fine: a matter of taste hopefully based on personal experience. I played different types, found what the differences were and made choices. Opinion. The same goes for neck profiles or pick-up choices. Preferences. Single coil and humbuckers sound noticeably different for anyone to hear so there is no debate about this, only an exchange of preferences. There is, however, debate about wood types, about set or bolted necks, about maple fingerboards sounding different from rosewood. That's where you get into beliefs and see fools expressing them, not opinions. There would be no "debate" if differences could be shown easily and if they can't, then they don't matter. People are debating the sex of angels because they can't find out then they'd want you to believe it is important. Fools, or charlatans. You get people telling you that ceramic pick-ups sound this way and AlNiCo that way until someone makes a video showing how it's the other way around and another one explains that it all depends on the remaining components in the circuits. But fools keep rehashing false generalities about ceramic pick-ups and need to be called what they are: ignorant who think they understand what they don't. Back to nuts, I am certain there are various types of "plastic" covering a wide quality range. I would not judge a nut by its generic material alone but I suppose if a nut is easy to cut then it must also wear out easily and wound strings will slowly dig it deeper when a vibrato is used. I wonder if bone, being natural, is not more likely to have faults bringing a higher percentage of them to crack. But then, seeing the price of a nut, I think I shouldn't be worried about it too much. I suppose nut material affects the tone of open strings. No big deal. I never had problems with nuts. Maybe that comes with heavy use. I believe most of those who replace them fall prey to fantasised beliefs or defensive prejudice. "You weren't expensive, so I'm going to change your nut, just in case. And your tuners, because they're probably bad. And probably the pick-ups too. And I'm not too sure about that bridge, is it real metal?" This is the core of many "reviews" I see. I was watching a video showing a dented Tune-o-matic bridge. Strings had worked their way into the saddles. Cheap metal? Possibly. I doubt it made a difference, though. They were still being held in place. Believers would say it most certainly affected tone, and of course it would do so negatively. The funny thing is, early Stratocasters were utter crap. Plastic parts would change colour and crack, the finish would fall off by just sweating over it, fingerboards would get all ugly from being fingered. I wonder if my cheap Harley Benton would fare better in the same conditions.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Jul 31, 2019 10:33:17 GMT
You get people telling you that ceramic pick-ups sound this way and AlNiCo that way until someone makes a video showing how it's the other way around and another one explains that it all depends on the remaining components in the circuits. But fools keep rehashing false generalities about ceramic pick-ups and need to be called what they are: ignorant who think they understand what they don't... I was watching a video showing a dented Tune-o-matic bridge. Strings had worked their way into the saddles. Cheap metal? Possibly. I doubt it made a difference, though. They were still being held in place. I'm sure I read in my Gibson book that the method Gibson use/used was to dent the saddles with a rubber hammer where the strings passed over them. Using an old set, not the ones that would eventually ship. So it sounds like they are meant to dent. I certainly prefer some dent and even some filed notching even on a simple wrapover LP Junior bridge. Without it the strings don't seem to return to base after bending. And if the dent isn't enough the string pings as it comes out. Two thumbs up for dents. As for ceramic versus AlNiCo. A nasty pickup is nasty no matter what the magnet contains. I had a cheap Squier strat with horrid sounding ceramic ice picky pickups and replaced them with some generic AlNiCo ones and they were as bad. However, I did change out the ceramic magnets from 3 P90s on two different guitars and seemed to get a nicer note bloom. Less attack which is a sound I can't bear normally.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 13:11:51 GMT
I have only changed nuts on my guitars that were not in the best of condition LeoThunder. I've fitted whatever other people wanted when asked to do so. I have no problem with any material if it's working OK. I agree with DefJef on pick ups you can get good cheap ceramic pups and you can get bad expensive alnico and vice versa. I tend to view you tube reviews with some scepticism. Some are making money promoting certain things others are trying to say I know best. Gibson get good and but press but if you play a good Gibson they are topnotch. Much like most brands you can get good and bad guitars. I prefer a notch, dent, v or whatever you want to call it on a bridge. I don't particularly like the tele style bridge mine has compensated saddles and appears to be fine. But I can't help looking at it and thinking it does not look the best stable design. But that's my veiw others love them. Some people like to slag HB's I can only say in my experience (I may have been lucky) they are pretty good value for money. The last 2 I bought have been virtually flawless. I understand some people want them as a modding platform and if that's good for them great. I only mod if I'm not happy with certain things. Things like string trees are for looks half the time and the possibility they may cause problems. We are never going to agree on all things and that's how it should be. We should all steal/borrow each others ideas if they work.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 13:37:32 GMT
You get people telling you that ceramic pick-ups sound this way and AlNiCo that way until someone makes a video showing how it's the other way around and another one explains that it all depends on the remaining components in the circuits. But fools keep rehashing false generalities about ceramic pick-ups and need to be called what they are: ignorant who think they understand what they don't... I was watching a video showing a dented Tune-o-matic bridge. Strings had worked their way into the saddles. Cheap metal? Possibly. I doubt it made a difference, though. They were still being held in place. I'm sure I read in my Gibson book that the method Gibson use/used was to dent the saddles with a rubber hammer where the strings passed over them. Using an old set, not the ones that would eventually ship. So it sounds like they are meant to dent. I certainly prefer some dent and even some filed notching even on a simple wrapover LP Junior bridge. Without it the strings don't seem to return to base after bending. And if the dent isn't enough the string pings as it comes out. Two thumbs up for dents. As for ceramic versus AlNiCo. A nasty pickup is nasty no matter what the magnet contains. I had a cheap Squier strat with horrid sounding ceramic ice picky pickups and replaced them with some generic AlNiCo ones and they were as bad. However, I did change out the ceramic magnets from 3 P90s on two different guitars and seemed to get a nicer note bloom. Less attack which is a sound I can't bear normally. Here's the video I was referring to. I'm not sure how original the denting is but I would definitely question how it is a bad thing: Ice-picky pick-ups come from a high resonance frequency in the response and this is defined by the resistance, inductance and capacity values of the coil together with the resistance of the volume pot. The larger the value of the volume pot (500K, 1M…), the higher that resonance frequency. Magnets play no role in this, even though they might affect other characteristics of the frequency response. That Squier might have been better served with a 250K pot.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jul 31, 2019 14:04:01 GMT
I tend to view you tube reviews with some scepticism. Some are making money promoting certain things others are trying to say I know best. Some reviewers are just trying to find something to say so their reviews will be thought worth watching. This is the common pitfall of professional criticism. Critics know their audience wants them to be a light in the dark, they want an opinion to follow, not a statement of ignorance so they provide something that sounds plausible, regardless of what they actually know. You can't judge tuners or hardware by looking at it, can't tell how well it will perform or long it will last based on visual impression, yet most do this. I can say my oldest and cheapest Harley Benton was a flawed thing but the wood hasn't moved a bit and everything still works as it should. The tuners even have a 20:1 ratio. The flaws were comical, though. The wiring of the tone pots was nonsensical and the nut was cut for a fretted instrument in spite of the thing being a fretless bass. I fixed both issues myself by re-soldering and filing. No "upgrades". The fingerboard is good, looks nice and even the sound of the active pick-ups (less wire?) is good enough.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jul 31, 2019 14:11:25 GMT
We appear to be in bit of a golden age for cheap guitars. Quality seems to be much better than of old. Parts made in Asia are cheap as chips ok the may not be as good as expensive brands but they are perfectly serviceable.
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Post by mattychaddy123 on Jul 31, 2019 16:00:17 GMT
We appear to be in bit of a golden age for cheap guitars. Quality seems to be much better than of old. Parts made in Asia are cheap as chips ok the may not be as good as expensive brands but they are perfectly serviceable. i was just reading back on the discussion that you and leothunder were having. and i was a bit confused, is the better nut and better tuners on the custom actually going to make a difference?
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