153 posts
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Post by r3v3nt0n on Aug 1, 2019 20:13:11 GMT
Helo everyone. I have a SC 450 Plus. Action on mine is quite low and it's a very playable guitar. Hi E about 1,25mm and Low E about 1,50mm. Neck relief is right, and action at the 1st fret is as low as it can be. I set up these things myself. But if 'd like to lower the string action even more it would not be possible. Bridge sits at it's lowest point now. So the only explenation would be a shallow neck angle. An just visualy compare it with other LPs with a 'proper' neck angle confirms this. I'm wondering, do all SC 450s have that angle or is it just mine. Now don't get me wrong, the guitar is a joy to play specialy with all the modifications and setups I've made. But it looks like I'm stuck with string action.
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chubbles
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by chubbles on Aug 2, 2019 5:36:32 GMT
Shimming the neck would be a little drastic. There are plenty of YouTube videos explaining the process if you want to learn about it.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 2, 2019 5:50:13 GMT
Neck angle on such guitars is not a constant. It never was on the original Gibson Les Paul either. This is a Vintage Series and Harley Benton are going the extra mile to replicate all the sloppiness that made the legend people want to have so bad. The bridge still has plenty of room down on mine and the action is lower than yours but I remember someone posting about a similar issue here some time ago.
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153 posts
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Post by r3v3nt0n on Aug 2, 2019 6:46:13 GMT
Shimming the neck would be a little drastic. There are plenty of YouTube videos explaining the process if you want to learn about it. Can't shim the neck on a set in neck guitar.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 2, 2019 7:08:28 GMT
Shimming the neck would be a little drastic. There are plenty of YouTube videos explaining the process if you want to learn about it. Can't shim the neck on a set in neck guitar. You'd have to unset and reset it. Quite an unsettling thought but it can be done. To me, this is a very good reason to buy such guitars new from Thomann, so they can be returned at once after checking the angle if it turns out to be insufficient.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 2, 2019 9:36:24 GMT
I sometimes wonder if it may be indicative of a stiffer neck timber or a thicker neck causing the relief to be heavily restricted to the thinner part of the neck. This is quite possible and likely one reason for keeping relief to a minimum.
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153 posts
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Post by r3v3nt0n on Aug 2, 2019 9:56:39 GMT
I measure the action at the 12th fret on a LP type guitars...
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 2, 2019 9:57:55 GMT
Out of interest has anyone done that ramping down of the frets above the 12th or from the point the neck joins the body? I can't help thinking it's the perfect remedy. I've found the occasional guitar where a low action is fine until this second half of the board when the fact that this section is perfectly flat requires some raising again resulting in unacceptably high action lower down the board. I sometimes wonder if it may be indicative of a stiffer neck timber or a thicker neck causing the relief to be heavily restricted to the thinner part of the neck. I watched videos of that being carried a while ago. If I remember rightly the guy said it was more common on set necks. Which could bear out you theory of thicker timber at the neck joint @defjeff. I believe his explanation was that it was the part of the neck that the truss rod had no effect on.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 2, 2019 12:33:01 GMT
Out of interest has anyone done that ramping down of the frets above the 12th or from the point the neck joins the body? I can't help thinking it's the perfect remedy. I've found the occasional guitar where a low action is fine until this second half of the board when the fact that this section is perfectly flat requires some raising again resulting in unacceptably high action lower down the board. I sometimes wonder if it may be indicative of a stiffer neck timber or a thicker neck causing the relief to be heavily restricted to the thinner part of the neck. I watched videos of that being carried a while ago. If I remember rightly the guy said it was more common on set necks. Which could bear out you theory of thicker timber at the neck joint @defjeff. I believe his explanation was that it was the part of the neck that the truss rod had no effect on. That's exactly right bw3f. The bow isn't between fret 1 and fret 21/2/3/4 but only between the 1st and around the heel. It seems to solve a great deal of trouble if these remaining frets gradually ramp down to the end of the neck. I'm trying to think of the disadvantages. It's a little trickier to carry out for sure and obviously the pickup height needs to be lowered a little fraction to give them enough clearance at the final fret. I suppose fret wire needs to be tall enough on the rest of the board to allow for this ramping off later. What else?
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 2, 2019 16:45:04 GMT
I watched videos of that being carried a while ago. If I remember rightly the guy said it was more common on set necks. Which could bear out you theory of thicker timber at the neck joint @defjeff. I believe his explanation was that it was the part of the neck that the truss rod had no effect on. That's exactly right bw3f. The bow isn't between fret 1 and fret 21/2/3/4 but only between the 1st and around the heel. It seems to solve a great deal of trouble if these remaining frets gradually ramp down to the end of the neck. I'm trying to think of the disadvantages. It's a little trickier to carry out for sure and obviously the pickup height needs to be lowered a little fraction to give them enough clearance at the final fret. I suppose fret wire needs to be tall enough on the rest of the board to allow for this ramping off later. What else? I don't think unless your frets are worn badly that it's a problem. I don't think it would require lots material removed. In one of the videos I watch it was done on an old guitar after removing frets on a refret. The guy basically sanded the fingerboard down prior to fitting new frets and then just levelled the frets. I wish I could remember who did the videos.
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Aug 4, 2019 17:44:05 GMT
I was thinking about this ramping business whilst I was playing today and suddenly wondered, who's to say that most fretboards aren't microscopically ramped in one direction or the other along their entire length? It may seem infinitesimal and the frets would be level but could it explain why some guitars are easier to get a low action on than others? Probably not. Hey, don't blame me. Science needs us blue sky thinkers if only to have some theories to knock down. They've got to have something to apply for a research grant with. I suspect the PLEK machine control program cares for this. Interesting graphic on this page showing that the are a lot of parameters it can care for:
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