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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 0:52:09 GMT
Last thread I can find on the HB DC Custom with a quick search relates to the White version, and nothing near current on the Cherry. Read the specs, seen the Thomann's website images. The "immediately available" (currently shipping?) version in Cherry with Jatoba fretboard in the shade of Jatoba in Thomann's website images is acceptable to me. I've already shot an email off to Thomann for confirmation before pressing buy, but seeking reassurance here, anyone bought one of these recently as in the last 6 weeks or so who can report their experience? My SC Custom was Made in Vietnam, so I've confidence in that if that's still their source per spec. Confirmation requested of that too in my email. If I received one made of 'wormwood' like the White one in this thread was -my empathy gearhunter, all I can say is that it's a long way from DE to AU just to be boomeranged back to DE. No way Jose!
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 28, 2019 3:06:29 GMT
I have not purchased a DC nor do I have any experience of them. What I do know about jatoba is it can be very hard on tools. I would however expect the factory to have adequate tooling and regular service schedules for the tooling. From the examples of jatoba fretboards shown on here, it appears there have been some issues. I'm surmising from the photos that I have seen some are down to poor workmanship and some due to defective timber. There were two CST24's that ttmax got, one looked like the timber had shakes and I believe the other was similar to the damage gearhunter has on his DC. There have also been complaints of the colour being too light, as you have probably read. Those fretboards with the damage should never have got through QC at the factory let alone Thomann. But if the timber was not dried correctly pre use some of the damage/splits/shakes may only become apparent later. But this should even if it did escape the factory be picked up by Thomann. I think with anytime they change fretboard wood/material there are initial problems. It appears if you are lucky and Thomann do QC on your order you get a reasonably decent guitar. I know two of my HB's were QC'd and two were not luckily there were no fretboard issues. I know none of the above helps you @manxcat and I totally understand your position with regard to purchasing a DC custom. We don't seem to get as many people posting their experience/reviews as often as we did? If decent jatoba is used there really should not be any issues. Hopefully someone who has recently purchased a DC Custom will offer some information.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 28, 2019 5:15:12 GMT
I think with anytime they change fretboard wood/material there are initial problems. This is the core message. Anything new is risky and risks go higher when the prices go down. People need to understand that they are not paying for quality insurance. Quality Control let through what they have to so the business remains viable. This might include checking samples when the amount of products to check is higher than they can wave a quality controller at. This means quality insurance goes the long way through the customer acceptance loop. The retainer bar on the first Fusion models was a prime example of this. I suspect Blackwood and Roseacer are another. After enough people have complained about their not being "real wood", independently of functionality, Jatoba is seen as an upgrade. Customers will be left to accept or reject the new colour and returns will show the factory if their tooling maintenance is up to the new material. That's probably how they'll learn it needs an update.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 5:48:52 GMT
No it's all helpful blindwilly3fingers. Thank you. Mightn't get the volume here, but the enthusiasm in and quality of post makes up for it.
I was lucky with my SC Custom. Mine was an initial Vietnamese production batch in Honey Flame just after Thomann had switched to sourcing from there. Fluke or Thomann QC, it was apparent it had been flawlessly set up. Only minor tweaking required to set intonation. AFAIR, I don't think I even had to adjust the neck relief. But it did arrive from a mid DE summer (July) into an AU mild winter, so not a significant temperature or humidity variation between departure and destination locations. I'm still totally blown away by its build and cosmetic quality, let alone the price I paid. Unfortunately as is the nature of such things, prices are rising, compounded by the absurdity of the strength of the USD. It'll get even more interesting too unfortunately the way things are developing.
Re problems with substitute woods like Jatoba, Ovangkol, Merbau etc. Apparently Cort manufacturing in Indonesia isn't having any problem with them I've struck yet. I suspect problems which are occurring are either low grade material, labour or tooling, possibly all three compounded. Something I've observed is that QC of all manufacturers including those brands of previously impeccable reputation is a bit hit and miss in 2017 through 2019. Apart from the fact that Chinese or Indonesian mentality is different from Japanese or German even with the best systems in place and training program oversight, I suspect the workers on the floor including QC Inspectors are under immense production quota pressure like never before. Guitars have never been so almost absurdly inexpensive, even relative to 45 years ago when they were coming out of Japan cheaply (e.g. Ibanez & Yamaha, et al) when the JPY like the DM was still rubbish but at the beginning of the period for which Japanese manufacturing precision and product transitioned from a post war reputation of junk to world renown for technology and quality.
My SC Custom fretboard is 'Roseacer'. I'd have preferred Jatoba. That said, I got a good one. Aesthetically, mine looks OK and feels acceptable. Up to the standard of Rosewood on my Cort or Yamaha electrics? No. But it is what it is, and I knew what it was when I bought, so no complaint other than the stated preference. I've got Cort acoustics with Merbau fingerboards, and apart from the grain being more prominent, the colour isn't too light against natural spruce, and it feels good under the fingers. The spec "Blackwood" fingerboard is why I've not bought an HB-35 Plus yet, but I've enquired into that as well as the website images contradict the spec, so one or the other is erroneous -hasn't been updated.
I guess I'll see what they reply to the specifics, although as to pre-shipping QC at Thomann I've already had the standard spiel reply to that enquiry.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 28, 2019 17:58:05 GMT
The spec "Blackwood" fingerboard is why I've not bought an HB-35 Plus yet, but I've enquired into that as well as the website images contradict the spec, so one or the other is erroneous -hasn't been updated. It's never too late I'm sure Blackwood will change to Jatoba if you wait long enough.
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Post by salteedog on Aug 28, 2019 20:16:04 GMT
I see that they are going to relax the CITES controls on Rosewood for musical instruments. Might be worth holding out until they revert to Rosewood at some point in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:21:38 GMT
Do you have a link to that CITES relaxation? Ref: "going to". Is it just being mooted currently, or is it actually enacted already in their legislation?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2019 20:26:44 GMT
Stubbornly, Yamaha International have stuck with Rosewood. A mixed bag of good and bad. The good, Rosewood fingerboards. The bad, incredible delivery delays. According to conversations I've had with Yamaha AU HQ Management and my State Yamaha Sale Man/Rep, CITES gets the blame for the latter. Whipping boy or = true? Who would really know?! That said, every Yamaha guitar I own (6 purchased over the three years 2017, 2018, 2019) has a Rosewood fingerboard. All had CITES certificates.
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Post by salteedog on Aug 28, 2019 21:35:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 0:07:15 GMT
Thanks salteedog. That's great news.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 29, 2019 0:34:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 0:37:37 GMT
I'm sure Blackwood will change to Jatoba if you wait long enough. You sound like my Mrs. If it was up to her, the perfect number of guitars I should own would be n + 0. Thanks for the vid link. Previously having owned an Ibanez SG, I'd already researched both and made my mind up some time ago that I wanted an ES style semi-hollow, but with contemporary features and appointments as Thomann's HB-35 Plus has. I'm patient, but am ready to buy now. I'll wait for Thomann's response, nevertheless. If the fingerboards are currently Blackwood, it'll be "no sale" until they aren't. Whether I'll wait to see if they reappear in Rosewood now given today's CITES ruling? Maybe. There's an economic imperative too with the world economy as it is and where it's headed exacerbated by the secondary impact of that on our local economy and currency. Unfortunately shipping to me in AU isn't free as it is in EU or the transatlantic "only 30 bucks" shipping to the US, so buying a single unit at a time adds nearly 25% to the total of either of those in shipping. A strategic buyer, I prefer to amortise shipping costs per consignment so it is approximately $30 per unit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 0:44:04 GMT
Ta DefJef ...I already downloaded and read the full transcript of the formal ruling linked from the NAMM site. There'll be lag in any reintroduction naturally, and it'll be interesting to see if and how manufacturers respond to buyer resistance/demand pressure, and if so, how long that'll take to occur. Yamaha instantly, because they never shifted to an alternative, but for manufacturers like Cort, and possibly Fender and Gibson who have a investment in already purchased materials and possibly contractual commitment ...?
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 29, 2019 5:33:07 GMT
Maybe it really is time we moved to carbon fibre fingerboards, after all… That guy was ahead of his time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 19:09:12 GMT
Kudos to them, Thomann got back to me with answers to my specific enquiries. Currently shipping Lemon Drop HB-35 Plus is Chinese production. Fretboard is Pau Ferro (not Blackwood as listed nor Jatoba as suspected). Looks OK contrasted vs the lighter Lemon Drop top, but importantly is a natural unstained wood, not 'toasted' Maple, Pine or some 'Eco-Rosewood' Techwood nonsense. Cherry DC Custom is Vietnamese production, and I thought this interesting, "next batch will be stained Jatoba" Clearly HB are listening and responding to buyer rejection of the lighter coloured Jatoba veneer. Not sure I want a stained wood fretboard though, which means waiting for re-emergence of Rosewood if not, as shipping costs to AU screw the HB advantage hard buying one guitar at a time. FWIW, current production Epiphone SG G-400 Pro in Cherry that I've seen, if at least deploying a real wood veneer, are a mismatched light coloured Pau Fero despite the image depiction of a darker fretboard on their website. Talk about deceptive marketing, unless, Epiphone have switched to stained Pau Ferro for the Cherry and Ebony Black bodies. Alpine White image is still illustrated with natural Pau Ferro shade? I actually wouldn't mind buying an Epihone G-400 Pro locally, but c'mon ....the local distro is kiddin' themselves if they think I'm ever going to part with AUD$800 for one when I can get a HB DC Custom for less than half that inc shipping. Surmising both brands have chosen to deploy a darkening stain on current model fretboards to achieve the look, Pau Ferro on the Epi, Jatoba on the HB.
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