700 posts
YouTube Channel: ToroK Channel
Disclosures: See Signature
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Post by taurash on Jan 12, 2020 12:33:55 GMT
Hi guys,
I was wondering how you consider a HB guitar. Is it : - a budget frinedly guitar that needs a bit of setup but plays an sound very well as such, more than good enough for you ? - a very good basis for a mod project ? - something else ?
Tell me all !
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Post by jvh on Jan 12, 2020 16:05:24 GMT
For me it's a bit of both. I'm buing my first HB brand guitar. I'm also curious to see what kind of quality i they offer. There's lot on HB praise on youtube but i'm bit sceptical about it. It's how Thoman advertaise Hb guitars.
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eddie
Harley Benton Club Member
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Post by eddie on Jan 13, 2020 1:50:02 GMT
For me it's a bit of both. I'm buing my first HB brand guitar. I'm also curious to see what kind of quality i they offer. There's lot on HB praise on youtube but i'm bit sceptical about it. It's how Thoman advertaise Hb guitars. Take it with a grain of salt. The high praise for the HB's need to be tempered a bit. People tend to exaggerate (badly) on the internet. Hoping your first HB is a good one. But realize that it's going to have flaws and warts. No sub $200 guitar is going to be perfect. Not even close. Ignore those people who claim that their $150 HB outplays a $500 guitar. They don't. BUT ... they're great values at $150. I just took delivery of a beautiful SC-550 Black Cherry. I spent some time with it head to head with my Epi LPC. The Epi is still a far better instrument in almost ALL phases ... tone, balance, playability, feel, etc, etc. BUT ... the SC-550 is $250 + shipping, and a new Epiphone LPC is $700 + tax. Not much of a comparison in the cost department. I'm waiting for the Firefly LP's to come available again. I had a shot at the last Kermit Green FF LP. Man, I want one. $140 shipped to my door. That's unreal.
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Post by tomim on Jan 13, 2020 7:29:41 GMT
Back in the day I bought the original V for **** and giggles... I put an EMG pickup in it and it was usable. I even played a punch of gigs with it. Still it felt like a toy but for me that was ok. I wouldn't have given that to a beginner though...
Couple of months back I bough sc550 and JA-60. I played that SC550 in a band rehearsal without any real setup (lowered the action a bit) with original strings. I was totally surprised about the quality of it. Sounded great, played extremely well, build quality is top notch (couple of minor blemishes in finishing which I really couldn't care less... and it was a b-stock). So I would say that it's a lot of guitar for the price. Don't see why I wouldn't gig and record with that one. When I'm changing the strings I will oil the fretboard as it seems quite dry. No need to give frets an attention.
With JA-60 there was a bit more to do. New strings, setting action, trussrod, changed string trees to roller ones (I had those laying around), fret ends needed a bit of attention, fret polish and oiling. Now it plays like a dream (acoustically, haven't had time to plug it in yet as I have it as "livingroom guitar").
I was thinking that those would be mod projects but at least the sc550 will stay as it is for now as it's really pretty damn good. Even the pickups. Need to plug in JA and see how it works electrically. It seems ok so if the PUs are ok that will stay as is as well.
-tomi-
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 13, 2020 9:15:40 GMT
All guitars need a set-up. I am convinced that a large number of ignorants believe expensive instruments play better only because they were given a proper set-up before they had them in their hands. It could have been done in the shop where they tried them (if I ran a guitar shop, I would definitely make sure the top of the price range gets a perfect set-up before it goes on display), by the shop as an incentive to the buyer or simply paid by the buyer themselves who decided to spend the extra money on their precious purchase.
Now, my Harley Benton nearly all required a bit of fret levelling to reach optimal string action (which I like low). My Ibanez, Schecter, Aria and others did not. Some of my Harley Benton had strange electronics too, which I had to modify. The SC-450 Plus had one linear and one logarithmic tone pot, which was an obvious blunder. The R-458 had its humbuckers wired in parallel, which is a bit of a nonsense for "hi-gain humbuckers" (the term itself being a stupidity; pick-ups have no gain, only output). The old B-400FL was complete nonsense, wired as a 50s Les Paul without a selector switch and with a nut cut for a fretted instrument.
So all in all, I see Harley Benton as potentially good but possibly compromised instruments, likely to require some fixing. I do not consider fret levelling part of the set-up, this is finishing up what the factory did not.
Add to this that the Thomann descriptions can be out of sync with the product you get too. They will change pick-ups (from P90 to Jazzmaster on the JA-60), fingerboard material, bridge type or even add features like coil split before it shows up on the web site. You're never quite sure what you get. It seems the ST-62 recently got a thinner neck.
The bottom of the price range, say below 150€, is basic without anything fancy. It can do the job though, depending on what one wants, without being especially attractive. The 150-250€ price range looks like the best cheap stuff you can get. Roswell pick-ups do not need replacing and some of the tops or woods can look very nice. I'm quite happy with my CST-24HB or my SC-7. My ST-62DLX has a very impressive flamed neck. When it comes to the BZ basses, we are no longer in the cheap area. I suppose the top of the price range measures up to this but I have no further experience with it.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 13, 2020 10:00:34 GMT
There's lot on HB praise on youtube but i'm bit sceptical about it. It's how Thoman advertaise Hb guitars. This is not Thomann doing this. It started long before they supported it. What you see in these videos can also be found in the Firefly reviews: people over-enthusiastic at the idea of getting something cheap and willing to believe it's as good as anything else. They are sincere, just blinded by desire, so to say. I started a few threads here just to expose the good and bad things I found in mine.
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572 posts
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Post by Djangle on Jan 13, 2020 15:01:48 GMT
The praise Harley Benton and other budget guitars receive from players nowadays probably boils down to remembering how bad many cheap guitars played and sounded way back in the day before the golden era of inexpensive good guitars. Sure there will be minor flaws here and there on budget guitars nowadays but as Leo mentions when a guitar is set up properly to your preference in my own experience I don't feel or hear much difference between £100 or £500 guitars that I have owned or played at one time or another. A workmate of mine got back into playing a year or so ago after a long break from playing or owning a guitar and bought a cherry red HB HB35 on my recommendation and I had the chance to compare it with my Hofner Verythin CT standard which costs around £300 or more than the HB35 and the difference in feel and sound was minimal. The Hofner has a slimmer body hence the name but both necks felt a little different with the HB having a slightly chunkier neck but playability was comparable. The Hofner pick ups sounded a tad brighter but in no way did the HB pups sound bad just different. Where I have found a difference in feel and tone is on much more expensive guitars like the USA strat and used LP deluxe with mini humbuckers I tried out at a guitar store recently. Both guitars just played themselves and I'm not usually a big LP fan but those mini humbuckers sounded fantastic.The tones I was getting from both guitars were amazing though I'm pretty sure a lot of it came from the tube amp I was plugged into and the acoustics of the booth. Again I'm not speaking for everyone as other folks experiences all differ.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 13, 2020 16:36:27 GMT
The tones I was getting from both guitars were amazing though I'm pretty sure a lot of it came from the tube amp I was plugged into and the acoustics of the booth. Most likely.
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Post by hallon on Jan 13, 2020 19:03:40 GMT
Hi guys, I was wondering how you consider a HB guitar. Is it : - a budget frinedly guitar that needs a bit of setup but plays an sound very well as such, more than good enough for you ? - a very good basis for a mod project ? - something else ? Tell me all ! A great guitar considering the price! And I might add, they also play better than some more expensive brands. And one of the most important things, it puts pressure on some other well known, way more expensive, established brands, to step up their game.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2020 6:38:15 GMT
Both guitars just played themselves … What does that really mean? Lower action? Different neck profile? The body shape cannot be the reason, can it? Was balance involved? I can't play my SC-450 Plus sitting on a chair because I have to keep the neck down in addition to fret strings. That fat bottomed thing is a pain so I play it on the couch. But that's not special to Harley Benton, it seems everyone has to contort themselves to play the silly things:
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700 posts
YouTube Channel: ToroK Channel
Disclosures: See Signature
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Post by taurash on Jan 14, 2020 7:54:25 GMT
Thanks for all these answers, guys !
I also believe that some HB are sometimes overrated. They're very good for the price, no doubt about it. But they don't equal more expensive axes from bigger brands. My SC 1000 can't compare to my Schecter Solo II platinum, even after setup, electronics complete change and the same pups. But for 188€, there's no finding better.
I agree with Leo, it looks like the 200€+ HB are treated with more care. I remember my SC Custom had a better finish than the SC 1000 and played better.
About the pups, yes the Roswell are quite good. The HBZ are not so bad but have a really big problem of hum that makes them disturbing. That's mainly the reason why I consider HBs as mod platforms. When I put a set of EMG in my SC 1000, it pushes it into another dimension. It sounds great and since it already plays very well, that's ok for me to have fun and record.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2020 8:19:26 GMT
My SC 1000 can't compare to my Schecter Solo II platinum, even after setup, electronics complete change and the same pups. What are the advantages of the Schecter? I have a couple of more expensive guitars. They are better in small ways when compared to their equivalents at half or a third of the price. My "made in Japan" Premium level Ibanez SR1100 is nicer than the more common SR370 with a fancy top, fancy woods, gold hardware and abalone inlays but it can be set up and "plays" the same. It is lighter, electronics are more sophisticated (it has a mid sweep control) and it sounds different because the pick-ups are single coil but it sold new for 3 times the price of the other (roughly 1200 to 400€). It's a nicer guitar. I'm not sure it is a much better one. I paid about 30€ more for it, so I'm happy but I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
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700 posts
YouTube Channel: ToroK Channel
Disclosures: See Signature
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Post by taurash on Jan 14, 2020 10:00:47 GMT
My SC 1000 can't compare to my Schecter Solo II platinum, even after setup, electronics complete change and the same pups. What are the advantages of the Schecter? When you first take it, the Schecter feels rock solid, that's the first thing that stroke me when I got it. The neck shape in a thin 'C', a bit thinner than the HB. It feels really very confortable, you can play whatever you want with it from jazz to blues, rock, metal... You never have to struggle with it. Of course, frets are perfectly leveled, polished, and sharp ends do not exist. It comes with a high quality hardware, including Tonepros bridge and tailpiece and Schecter locking tuners (If what I've read is right, these are rebranded Grover) and a black tusk graph tech nut. The ebony fretboard is amazing. Softest touch I've felt on a fretboard. When you open the electronic cavity you realize that this guitar has been very seriously built, there's not a single thing to reproach with it. Overall, it gives the impression that this axe is made for lasting and surviving rehearsals, gigs and everything you can do with an instrument. Of course, it was sold 800€ new. I personnally bought it on the used market for 550€ with a bonus Mono softcase. And, big bonus for me, I bought it to Matt Tuck, rhythm guitar and vocal in Bullet For My Valentine, a band that I love With the same hardware, the HB wouldn't feel the same. The painting is more fragile, when you look inside the cavities you don't notice the same attention to details. You can still make the HB an very good guitar and have tons of fun with it, but it's not the same overall high quality feel.
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34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Jan 14, 2020 10:50:23 GMT
Regarding the original question I would say that an HB fits all of the options listed:
- a budget friendly guitar that needs a bit of setup but plays an sound very well as such, more than good enough for you ?
Indeed! Especially for the medium to high Harley Benton series. They are more than enough of a guitar to record and get very good tones. I would say that where you feel a real difference with higher-end guitars is in the volume and tone pots, which give more versatility to the higher priced guitars. But that's easily upgradeable in an HB.
The need of a setup is sometimes more essential mainly in the frets, if you get dead spots return it immediately, but if it's a minor thing, you can try to solve it with a fret file,a credit card and youtube.
- a very good basis for a mod project ?
Also true. HBs, due to their affordable price and decent components, are ideal platforms for modding and taking risks.
A medium-high series HB can perfectly be your main guitar if you are not too picky with electronics. The most affordable ones are more hit and miss.
I would also say that Harley Bentons are not necessarily 'guitars for beginners'. They are worthy instruments in their own right, comfortable, with tuning stability, and able of producing what to me are excellent sounds -and I can compare with other much more expensive guitars.
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