DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 12:53:37 GMT
Post by DefJef on May 3, 2017 12:53:37 GMT
Its seems to be an incredibly slow backing track. The original must have been almost twice as fast as this, say, 140bpm. I often find it is harder to get timing right if the piece is too slow. It should swing so that you feel it and everything falls into place. At this slow speed nothing can swing so you are needing to count or judge it some other way. You might find it easier cerb if you have another stab at a faster lick. Then you'll feel cool too 'cos you can play it faster! The bass sounds nice, it's just that the backing track isn't helping you. Good luck with it. Fancy laying down some nice bass riffs for the forum's Bentonite band?
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 15:46:25 GMT
Post by JAC on May 3, 2017 15:46:25 GMT
cerb, is this your first time with a FL? That didn't sound bad at all, except for the timing as you say, but that is one of the issues of recording on a PC, it takes work to get things lined up properly. BTW, one of the things I did when I started playing fretless was to play with the bass plugged into a tuner. I would try to play without looking, and when something sounded "off", I would hold the note and check the tuner to see how far away I was and correct muscle memory. If your ear is good then this may be a useless activity, as you can quickly correct the note by ear, but if you struggle (like me) it can prove to be quite useful.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 17:46:55 GMT
Post by DefJef on May 3, 2017 17:46:55 GMT
Good tip JAC. So, it's not just me that finds PCs don't line recordings up. I always do some rhythm clucks against the click track so that after recording I can line things up. I often find my recording is 1/64 or a 1/64 triplet ahead of the backing track and nothing I do with latency settings ever sorts it out.
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:05:24 GMT
Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:05:24 GMT
cerb The timing does distract from the music sadly, but i suppose that's one of the reasons you labeled it Jazz, you can get away with it! Otherwise sounds nice, recorded all instruments yourself? Yeah, timing has always been an issue for me. It's like I lack something that most people have built in. I'm working on it and it's getting better but right now it's the one thing that's holding me back the most. I did record bass and guitars. The drum loop came from yout00b.
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:08:26 GMT
Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:08:26 GMT
Its seems to be an incredibly slow backing track. The original must have been almost twice as fast as this, say, 140bpm. I often find it is harder to get timing right if the piece is too slow. It should swing so that you feel it and everything falls into place. At this slow speed nothing can swing so you are needing to count or judge it some other way. You might find it easier cerb if you have another stab at a faster lick. Then you'll feel cool too 'cos you can play it faster! The bass sounds nice, it's just that the backing track isn't helping you. Good luck with it. Fancy laying down some nice bass riffs for the forum's Bentonite band? Yeah, slow is harder. I think the drum loop was at 100 bpm and the original is probably 140.. ish. I'd like to get to a point where it isn't timing and rhythm that's restricting me. It'd be nice to be able to play in a band setting. Even if it's just a bunch of other middle aged guys in a garage.
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:11:03 GMT
Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:11:03 GMT
cerb , is this your first time with a FL? That didn't sound bad at all, except for the timing as you say, but that is one of the issues of recording on a PC, it takes work to get things lined up properly. BTW, one of the things I did when I started playing fretless was to play with the bass plugged into a tuner. I would try to play without looking, and when something sounded "off", I would hold the note and check the tuner to see how far away I was and correct muscle memory. If your ear is good then this may be a useless activity, as you can quickly correct the note by ear, but if you struggle (like me) it can prove to be quite useful. Yeah, first time with any bass, fretless or not. I've used the tuner trick too I think the transition to fretless would have been easier coming from a fretted bass, the scale is too different from guitar. Still, the fingers seem to understand that they are supposed to stretch more.
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:11:42 GMT
Post by Surge on May 3, 2017 22:11:42 GMT
cerb The timing does distract from the music sadly, but i suppose that's one of the reasons you labeled it Jazz, you can get away with it! Otherwise sounds nice, recorded all instruments yourself? Yeah, timing has always been an issue for me. It's like I lack something that most people have built in. I'm working on it and it's getting better but right now it's the one thing that's holding me back the most. I did record bass and guitars. The drum loop came from yout00b. I am no guitar teacher, so i would not know how to help or give advice on that front. I'm lucky that i've been born with a great sense for music, timing and the whole tone front, so i can't imagine how difficult that must be. All the more notable and cool that you're taking the challenge trough! hats off for that
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:17:22 GMT
Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:17:22 GMT
Good tip JAC . So, it's not just me that finds PCs don't line recordings up. I always do some rhythm clucks against the click track so that after recording I can line things up. I often find my recording is 1/64 or a 1/64 triplet ahead of the backing track and nothing I do with latency settings ever sorts it out. That's interesting. I don't trust my own timing enough to blame the recording equipment but I have experimented with it. The Line 6 interface has a self reported latency of 16/16ms playback/record going through Reaper. The Yamaha THR amp has 14/14. Reaper is supposed to auto correct but I don't know if it does and I don't know if the latency is constant or if it changes depending on CPU load etc.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:20:00 GMT
Post by DefJef on May 3, 2017 22:20:00 GMT
I've done the garage thing cerb and there's little to recommend it unless you have a passion for ice cold fingers. These days I take my mates down to my office on a Sunday and we push back the racking and desks and blast ourselves silly. Cake and coffee for refreshments then a pot roast and beaucoup de vin back at somebody's house seems a far more civilised way of doing things. We record here on the forum across continents just by gradually uploading to Soundcloud and building a new tune. JAC started one off for us on his bass last year and it turned out pretty sweet, so if you have a little riff that you're dying to get out here just go to the stages and studios section and tell us what you've uploaded, give us a bpm clue and we'll see who fancies arranging something with it. I guarantee that, unless your very strict, you'll end up with something you weren't expecting and we may find a drummer we didn't know about or a latent keyboard player. It's a virtual garage...but without the cold fingers...and without the pot roast etc.
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:22:05 GMT
Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:22:05 GMT
Yeah, timing has always been an issue for me. It's like I lack something that most people have built in. I'm working on it and it's getting better but right now it's the one thing that's holding me back the most. I did record bass and guitars. The drum loop came from yout00b. I am no guitar teacher, so i would not know how to help or give advice on that front. I'm lucky that i've been born with a great sense for music, timing and the whole tone front, so i can't imagine how difficult that must be. All the more notable and cool that you're taking the challenge trough! hats off for that I started taking lessons two months ago, the first time since high school. I actually didn't touch a guitar for 15 years after graduating high school, I picked it up again two years ago. As long as I feel progress I stay motivated
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cerb
Harley Benton Club Member
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Post by cerb on May 3, 2017 22:24:12 GMT
I've done the garage thing cerb and there's little to recommend it unless you have a passion for ice cold fingers. These days I take my mates down to my office on a Sunday and we push back the racking and desks and blast ourselves silly. Cake and coffee for refreshments then a pot roast and beaucoup de vin back at somebody's house seems a far more civilised way of doing things. We record here on the forum across continents just by gradually uploading to Soundcloud and building a new tune. JAC started one off for us on his bass last year and it turned out pretty sweet, so if you have a little riff that you're dying to get out here just go to the stages and studios section and tell us what you've uploaded, give us a bpm clue and we'll see who fancies arranging something with it. I guarantee that, unless your very strict, you'll end up with something you weren't expecting and we may find a drummer we didn't know about or a latent keyboard player. It's a virtual garage...but without the cold fingers...and without the pot roast etc. Nice! Now I'm hungry for pot roast! I may have something...
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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NBD!
May 3, 2017 22:37:42 GMT
Post by DefJef on May 3, 2017 22:37:42 GMT
Good tip JAC . So, it's not just me that finds PCs don't line recordings up. I always do some rhythm clucks against the click track so that after recording I can line things up. I often find my recording is 1/64 or a 1/64 triplet ahead of the backing track and nothing I do with latency settings ever sorts it out. That's interesting. I don't trust my own timing enough to blame the recording equipment but I have experimented with it. The Line 6 interface has a self reported latency of 16/16ms playback/record going through Reaper. The Yamaha THR amp has 14/14. Reaper is supposed to auto correct but I don't know if it does and I don't know if the latency is constant or if it changes depending on CPU load etc. I wouldn't be too harsh on yourself, cerb. Latency could still very well be the issue. In the early days I frequently despaired, thinking, "how come it sounds alright when I'm playing but I clearly suck in reality?" This was especially noticeable with electronic keyboard parts. Once I figured out what the problem was I just got used to playing some clear muted thunks to the click track to enable me to line everything up later. Without the thunks you can make the mistake of lining up your first note with a beat when, in actuality, we all tend to play in front of and behind the beat from time to time because we are human and not cold dead machines. This week I was trying to create a drum track and realised that a hi hat sounded better just ahead of the beat rather than quantized to it because a cymbal has a dwell time that grows. It's great that you have jumped onto a bass from guitar. As you say, everything feels big and stretchy and awkward to start with and I personally find my brain refuses to think of the G string as that and seems to want to believe that it is the B or top E string on my guitar and I do that insane little step up when playing a scale and it all goes to poop. The weirder thing is that, when you go back to guitar from bass it feels ridiculously easy and madly small. I have never been a dedicated bass player but haven't found the jump from fretted to fretless particularly as stressful as I thought I might but then again my fretless had the frets ripped out and filled with cherrywood so I can see where I'm supposed to be. Some call it cheating. I call it common sense.
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3,968 posts
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NBD!
May 4, 2017 15:01:23 GMT
Post by salteedog on May 4, 2017 15:01:23 GMT
I'm very much a novice at bass myself (more so than at guitar) but here are my tips on timing
1. I find Bass is better played standing up - you have to let the groove flow through your body. 2. Best tip for timing is learn to stamp your feet or nod your head in time - it'll make it much easier for your fingers to follow suit. 3. For Bass I believe (and this is where the real bass players might lynch me) any note played at the right time (beat) is better the the right note played at the wrong time.
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Post by JAC on May 4, 2017 16:18:55 GMT
... 3. For Bass I believe (and this is where the real bass players might lynch me) any note played at the right time (beat) is better the the right note played at the wrong time. This video with Victor Wooten at Thomann on Bass day last year talks about that exact point that you make. Ok, I know it is 17 minutes long, but it is interesting (or at least I think it is, but I'm a bass player )
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