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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2019 4:30:40 GMT
It all sounds truly horrible to me. And that video was on Blackstar's own website like it was a thing to be proud of. Just watched that video. The first "clean" sound is horrible to start with, hard, metallic. I know when I hear this there's no point bothering with the rest, but I did out of curiosity. That "British clean" which follows is not clean. This a product targeted at the metal crowd. It goes for the edgy screechy on purpose. Not the "solid state" components are at fault here but the aesthetic choice made by Product Management. I wouldn't generalise this to the whole line of Blackstar product right away but it's a good idea to check out more of their marketing material. Sometime, what people praise is not even what you want.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2019 4:44:13 GMT
It could be that the Champ has some of the loveliest clean tone but just will not sound good overdriven in any way. Back to school. Not impossible but that Blackstar metal thing is most likely the root cause here. Isn't the Champ a small one? Of all the Fender models I have in the Mustang, the Champ is the one that sounds boxy, fuzzy and low-fee (had to make it rime) at least until I replace its simulated cab with something else. Fuzzy won't come from the cab, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 7:24:33 GMT
Often wonder whether Bugera V22 may hit all the right spots. Or just the head possibly. I have placed that v22 head back into my Thomann shopping basket late last night. I certainly have 2 very usable guitars. And one V55 tube combo with 6L6. Do I really need another tube amp? I like to think those EL84 will drive differently and I will have chance to have an isolated cabinet for recording. One thing I love about Bugera V series, they can be set up hiss free for recording and they have a heavenly clean channel. Btw, placed one Behringer Bass DI into the basket with it. It's only 18 euros. Will decide today if I'm buying these!
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2019 8:20:29 GMT
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Jan 14, 2019 9:18:58 GMT
Thanks for the link LeoThunder. I'll read it properly when I have a little time. I can see that the general thrust of it is one of market placement and economics, but that tends to ignore how well a cheap Bugera responds. I can accept that the speakers will have a big impact and many folk do highlight that Bugeras improve with speaker changes. Otherwise they seem so much better than similarly priced solid state amps when it comes to overdrive. Certainly the better solid states that have been aimed at the professional market seem to do very good things. Yamaha have a a reputation for great clean solid state jazz amps and BB King, of course, managed to get his solid states to sing and whistle at his high volumes although that was not an overdriven sound. By the way, the Fender Champ 25SE that I have is a hybrid beast, absolutely nothing like a Champ as the world knows them. Fender like to use their registered names and apply them to entirely different articles. They've done it with 'Mustang' and 'Princeton' too. My amp has an ss preamp and 6L6 power tubes (the opposite to the norm for hybrids but one that Leo Fender himself introduced at Music Man). Two channels, reverb tank and a 12" speaker. The clean sounds that it puts out are absolutely lovely. The reverb beautiful. The cabinet very large and open (about 20% larger than the Katana which has a same sized speaker and always sounds more lifeless playing reverbed cleans in comparison. Folk have noted that Fender's Bassbreakers also sound better through bigger cabinets), and the speaker just great and well worn in for those clean sounds. The overdrive channel is best completely ignored; it sounds as solid state as we are all used to. In fact worse than most. There is a master volume but I've never managed to have it loud enough to see if those 6L6s can ever break up. Now, it could be that all those things that make the cleans lovely are what make it bad for overdriven sounds and any attempt to make it overdrive beautifully is a fool's errand, but I'd like it not to be as I don't really want to lug two amps to a gig (although, come to think of it, knowing my love of braces and a belt it might be a good idea ). I can't help thinking that, for whatever reason, the solid sate preamp is causing poor responsive overdrive and bypassing it using a valve preamp in the effects loop ought to work. Then again, what do I know? The Blackstar sure can't do it and I suspect you are right about all of their products. They are not designed for my taste or ears. That video seemed to confirm it. So the solution may not be having to spend 'professional prices', although that may ultimately be the only solution. There seem to be a good number of tube products out there under £200 that might suffice, heads or otherwise. I just hoped I'd found a cheapskate solution. Blackstar aren't going to be it though. Maybe a Bugera V5 into my Champ's cabinet?!
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jan 14, 2019 9:54:37 GMT
I can see that the general thrust of it is one of market placement and economics, but that tends to ignore how well a cheap Bugera responds. Two parts to this. First, artificial quality placement does exist (because it can) and it always crumbles when the new kid on the block decides to sell the same for less margin in order to gain market share. Bugera could be that kid. Electronics are not so much a matter of the cost of components, more of design. Second, the emulation of tubes through solid state is not a straightforward affair. People have known for decades how to make good solid state amplifiers (hi-fi, neutral things) but bending a technology to reproduce the faults of another is a different problem to solve. It might be simpler to keep using the stuff that does it naturally. Given the ignorant, worshipping mindset of the customer base, tube-sounding solid state amps are probably a losing proposition regardless of quality anyway. Make a new tube amp that sounds a little different from another, it's a new tube amp welcome to the family. Make a solid state "copy" that has the least sign of individuality and people will call it fake, find it's lighter than a duck and burn it at the stake.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 10:19:53 GMT
Unless you only need to use the Bugera V5 for home recording please do not spend cash on it. I had it as its a nice amp for home use but NEEDS EQ pedal of sorts as that Tone isnt doing that much.
I would much rather go for the V22 as it gives you 3 band EQ in Clean or in dirt channels. It gives you Master and Channel volumes which gives you the oportunity to create all kind of variations for home recording, Drive with low volumes (and yet loud enough for the RODE M3).
You will have a great gigging amp as it can give you lovely cleans and then some, once you hit that clean with an OD pedal! I doubt you can get anything as good for this price! As a matter of fact Im very close to buying the V22 head today (still pondering if there is something else I need more at this time).
The Bugera speaker in my amp sounds very good. Listen to that recording I did for Damascus! Listen to the bridge part and how sizzly it sounds. Listen to the main riff for Damascus too. Speaker can be swapped but the fact remains these Bugera V-series are just awesome amps for the money!
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Jan 14, 2019 10:45:42 GMT
DefJef - might be worth throwing together a home-made attenuator for your Champ - especially if it's easy enough to patch between the output and the speaker. This would allow you to run the power tubes at breakup without blowing the roof off your house. The challenge is that you will lose high end unless you build something more sophisticated (either with a more complicated circuit or with a dud speaker driver). @chedapapa What gap are you trying to fill? Are you also looking for a low powered tube amp to give you edge of breakup dynamics at recording volume. I thought your current set-up wasn't too bad in that regard. Or are you looking for a different tonality?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 11:13:40 GMT
saltee, no gaps really. If I have a gap its called a Looper (looking at the Ditto stereo) as I need it to lay down my riff ideas and then try and figure out other parts. I hate doing this into the DAW and then use headphones.
Another amp would mean my paranoia would be a bit calmed down as right now I only have one amp! Its the first Bugera V series version and Im the 3rd owner. Also the V22 head would mean getting a 12" cab at some point which is nice to have to isolate the cab when recording.
After playing the Laney CUB 10 I come to realise that I need a tube amp with lots of headroom, clean, and then hit it with my pedals instead. Imnot much of a cranked break up tube amp guy. Those 6V6 sure get into break up easily especially on higher volumes.
Maybe I should just calm the eF down and get a Looper and that Behringer Bass DI pedal for me new Shorty Bass and call it the end until something actually breaks down! Im more than happy with my Bugera V55 as it can play from very low home friendly volumes to raging gigging volumes (and still be very clean if so desired or get some rage with a good OD pedal).
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Jan 14, 2019 11:42:21 GMT
Sounds like you have your answer. I wouldn't worry about a backup right now. Put the cash aside into a rainy-day fund if you need to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 12:15:40 GMT
V22 has a very nice sounding Reverb! Once you test you will hear for yourself. The old V-versions dont have a nice Reverb but the Infinium models do! Its not Spring though but more of a Room to Hall
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