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Post by Kaplow on Jun 21, 2019 14:08:07 GMT
First off, I'm going to preface this post with the fact that I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to modding and guitars in general. I started playing about 3 years ago, but I play almost every day. I even play some rhythm guitar for a local cover band in town. Anyways, I started out with a junk no-name guitar but eventually came across an old used PRS-SE for $200. It felt great to play and the neck was PERFECT. However, I wasn't thrilled about the color. I played this guy for about a year until I saw this absolute beautiful emerald green Harley Benton guitar. I did a TON of research for a few months and eventually pulled the trigger and ordered it. I LOVE THIS GUITAR! Its so easy to play and the finish is beautiful. Unfortunately, I think it sounds kind of muddy or bass heavy. I want this guitar to sound brighter so that the higher tones are noticeable. Thus, my dilemma. I am more than willing to replace the electronics in this guitar to give it that extra bump but the pickup market is so confusing to me. I've researched more than I'd like to admit but I feel like I'm going in circles.
Basically, I'm asking this forum for some help. I know my way around a soldering gun and voltmeter so I'm not concerned about that. I'm looking for an affordable set of pickups (maybe all of the electronics?) in the US that I can put into this guitar. Somewhere between $50-$75 per pickup sounds reasonable. I don't want to get too crazy in price since this will be my first time.
If there is something else that I should be looking at then I would be very appreciative of any advice!
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jun 21, 2019 15:29:02 GMT
Have you thought about a treble bleed mod, just a capacitor and resistor usually fitted to volume pot? That can help clear a bit of the mud (high pass filter). You may find the pups are OK with this mod.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 21, 2019 15:42:54 GMT
One cheap and easy fix for dull pick-ups is to increase the total value of the volume pot. It increases the cutting frequency of the system. It is probably a 500 KOhm pot at present. Doubling that to 1 MOhm could be the first step.
Maybe, but just maybe, the pick-ups are set too high, too close to the strings. Lowering them is another change worth trying. I doubt it would have as much impact as increasing the volume pot, though.
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Post by Kaplow on Jun 21, 2019 16:32:29 GMT
Blindwilly - I didn't know that treble bleed mods were a thing. I think that is definitely worth a try.
LeoThunder - I have tried lowering the pickups and that made almost no impact for tone. I'll take it apart and measure the resistance. Maybe I'll change the pots when I attempt the treble bleed mod.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jun 21, 2019 17:02:03 GMT
Blindwilly - I didn't know that treble bleed mods were a thing. I think that is definitely worth a try. LeoThunder - I have tried lowering the pickups and that made almost no impact for tone. I'll take it apart and measure the resistance. Maybe I'll change the pots when I attempt the treble bleed mod. I've linked a short video on treble bleeds, but there are loads of others out there. You may want to just clip different cap and resistor values in temporarily before soldering to see what works for you. I did that on a couple of my guitars. I made half a dozen variations and clipped them in with tiny crocodile clips, and chose what I though sounded best. The caps and resistors are cheap as chips. Good luck 👍
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Post by Kaplow on Jun 21, 2019 17:56:23 GMT
I ordered a few sizes on Amazon and they should be here tomorrow. Sounds like a decent little weekend project! Thanks for all of the assistance. I'll report back with the results.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Jun 21, 2019 19:33:12 GMT
Perhaps I wrongly assumed that he was not playing with the volume pot fully open? Hey ho scrub the treble bleed as a way of getting a better tone from muddy pups.
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Post by Kaplow on Jun 21, 2019 21:05:55 GMT
I did hear them say this several times in a few of the videos that I watched. The assumption was correct though, I rarely play with my volume at full blast on the guitar. Still, considering the cheap price and the small amount of time that it takes to do I think it's worth trying. Plus, it's fun.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Jun 21, 2019 21:57:32 GMT
Well, that'll definitely explain some of the muddiness then Kaplow. The treble bleed should certainly help you there then. I presume this was not a problem you were experiencing with the PRS though when playing with the volume similarly knocked off a bit? Worth a look at those pot values too if you still have it. If you don't there should be some info online. I wonder whether the simple 50s wiring mod might be your cup of tea too. I'm no expert on it and it would maybe makes things worse for you but we have a real fan of it here on the forum in DerAlex. It uses no extra parts and is simply a case of moving one wire, connecting the tone pot to the output of the volume pot (middle lug) instead of the input lug. It seems to suit people like you who are keen to use the volume knob a bit. Check this site for info about it and applying it to a telecaster with a similar knob arrangement to your HB CST24T.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 22, 2019 3:10:56 GMT
A treble bleed, in any of the three variants exposed in the video above, is shorted when the volume pot is on its maximum value and can therefore have no effect. It will compensate for some of the alteration which occurs when the volume is lowered. It does that by placing a capacitance in parallel to that part of the volume pot which comes in series with the pick-up before the output signal, essentially shorting it for the high frequencies. I actually wonder how the "simple" variant works at all, as I feel it should drastically alter the behaviour of the volume pot itself.
If the sound at maximum volume is not bright enough, something else needs to be done.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 22, 2019 5:06:11 GMT
Since we are discussing treble bleed, this guy explains how the threes variants affect the behaviour of the volume pot in addition to restoring highs. He confirms my expectation that the Kinman variant (resistance and capacitor in series) is the least intrusive in this respect and also demonstrates them.
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 22, 2019 6:16:18 GMT
And for the sake of completeness, here is the explanation of the impact of so-called 50s wiring.
While some improvement on high frequencies at lowered volume is present but subtle with the tone controls full open (no attenuation), it gets funny and confusing when the tone is rolled off. What happens then when lowering the volume is that the rolled off part of the volume pot adds itself in series to that of the tone control, thus effectively turning the tone up (note that this effect is equally present when the tone is full open, just less obviously audible).
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Post by trb on Jun 22, 2019 6:23:47 GMT
hi all
I have 7 HB, and half of them have treble bleed installed. With Capa and resistor in parallel. It clearly depends on the PUs I installed: I need a TB or not. I use capa from 120pF to 680 pF, and resistor from 120K to 330K. Overall a clearer tone, and when inccreasing the vol pot, a "punchier" sound. If the cap & resist values are too much, then you will have a too much trebly tone, and the vol pot will give you the feeling not to be enough progressive, too much agressive... if you see what I mean.
So as usual whith tone, only very general rules, and need to test, taste and feel !
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