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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 12, 2019 19:38:46 GMT
After a quick Google session, some oil based polys have oils that give a light Amber colour to bare wood. Exterior grade poly has the UV protection interior grade usually doesnt. Probably not much help as god knows what finishes guitar companies use. Acrylic polys are another ball game altogether!
I suppose the only way to find out if it will fade is to put it in sunlight. Again this is probably OK if you don't mind waiting 5 to 10 years?
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 12, 2019 23:26:28 GMT
Well DefJef thank you for setting me off on the path of the aged fade! Read up on top coat finishes and stains, very interesting! What I basically discovered is that even polys will fade but it has to be UV light apparently. Direct Sunlight can damage not just the finish of the guitar but also pups, plastic parts and even some hardware due to heat. I had not given a thought to the guitar heating up and wax potting melting, plastic becoming deformed etc. Obviously if a guitar was left out in the sunlight on a hot day for a long period, then taken indoors to a cool place finish checking could occur. You know the dynamics of expansion and contraction due to rapid temperature change blah blah blah. Without boring you to tears with half the stories and theories I read and the possible scenarios. Obviously pigments in dyes and finishes have improved since the 50's and 60's. And modern glass is a better UV filter than it was back then. So putting it infront of a window may not work. From my brief sojourn on t'internet I'm led to believe the best way to safely fade a guitar burst finish is a UV light source. One suggestion was a sunbed at the local tanning salon, I'm sure the ladies topping up their tan wouldn't mind! I think a UV bulb in a desk lamp would probably be a better idea or whatever UV light fitting you may have access to. But apparently it can take a little time to reach the desired effect. I actually learned a few things looking into this, as I probably wouldn't ever consider deliberately fading the finish on any of my guitars. I wouldn't even have contemplated the damage that could possibly occur. It would be interesting to know if there is truth in the above suggestions or if it is just conjecture. 🤔 🤔 🤔
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Post by hallon on Aug 12, 2019 23:35:26 GMT
I don't trust it. It STAYS IN THE CUPBOARD! I only bought it 'cos I was going through a Frank Zappa phase. haha, nah man, your guitar is fine! Zappas guitar though on the other hand...
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 13, 2019 3:51:26 GMT
Well DefJef thank you for setting me off on the path of the aged fade! Read up on top coat finishes and stains, very interesting! What I basically discovered is that even polys will fade but it has to be UV light apparently. Direct Sunlight can damage not just the finish of the guitar but also pups, plastic parts and even some hardware due to heat. I had not given a thought to the guitar heating up and wax potting melting, plastic becoming deformed etc. Obviously if a guitar was left out in the sunlight on a hot day for a long period, then taken indoors to a cool place finish checking could occur. You know the dynamics of expansion and contraction due to rapid temperature change blah blah blah. Back in the 80s, I loaned Miles Davis' Man With The Horn to a student friend who left it in the sun at the back of a car and returned it warped (together with a new replacement - he was a nice guy). I can confirm that Mike Stern's solos on it were just as affected as anything else. This will not happen to my m4a version of the album.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 13, 2019 4:03:18 GMT
Do poly finishes ever fade? If they do I'm all for hanging a Clownburst in a tree to ward off the evil spirits. I much prefer them when they've mellowed away too. As it stands I think it actually looks better than Frank's. A quick look under the pickguard would answer that question. I don't think this one needs fading. It has a nice gradient, which cannot be said of Zappa's. I have that 3 LP box. Is it a holly relic yet?
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 13, 2019 7:57:50 GMT
Talking about looks and faded subtleties, I went back to Henning's old review of the equivalent (the L-450 Plus) and found the cheap thing nicer looking than that object of worship Zappa was holding:
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 13, 2019 9:31:00 GMT
I had an Airfix fishing rod when I was a kid. Put it on the back shelf of the car as we headed off on holiday. By the time we got to use it it looked like a licquorice string. My guitar will probably stand up to the 'baking sun' of South Wales for at least the next 9 months. I'll put it away next June. Because it's been regularly cased it's probably brighter than it could be. I put the black pickguard on as a replacement for a very white one that didn't seem to tie in with the colour scheme at all (perhaps that was already a replacement for an original black one?! I noticed no fading at all. I suspect Zappa liked that guitar because is was made up with all the subtlety of a lady of the night.
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Post by oghkhood on Aug 13, 2019 10:17:50 GMT
And he probably liked it more with his hears and his fingers than with his eyes.... and when looking at it, he saw a musical instrument.... and after, eventually, a guitar
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 13, 2019 10:47:30 GMT
Because it's been regularly cased it's probably brighter than it could be. I put the black pickguard on as a replacement for a very white one that didn't seem to tie in with the colour scheme at all (perhaps that was already a replacement for an original black one?! I noticed no fading at all. Black pick-up frames and black knobs… a white pickguard was definitely out of place. My Vintage Burst is very orange. I wonder if that's the reason I got it cheap. I like that it makes it special. I might not like to hold a Les Paul very much but I always liked the way they look.
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Post by salteedog on Aug 13, 2019 10:54:50 GMT
My black HB ST-20 has gone silvery-grey around the edges.... I assumed it was the effect of sunlight but perhaps not. The phenomenon hasn't occurred on my similar black TE-20.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 13, 2019 11:00:15 GMT
And he probably liked it more with his hears and his fingers than with his eyes.... and when looking at it, he saw a musical instrument.... and after, eventually, a guitar For sure he was always looking for something that fit his playing style. Lesson learned, the Les Paul didn't suit mine! An interesting article is available online. Here's Frank's take: "Well, my ideal would be a combination of a bunch of different kinds of guitars. I like the vibrato bar if it's on a Strat. But I don't like a normal Strat neck because the curve is wrong for my hand. I like the neck I used to have on the SG because it was a 23-fret neck. And the fret spacing was more comfortable for my hand. But I like the tone quality and sustain that I get out of the Les Paul, which is due to the bulk of the guitar. And so, if I could get all of that together in one instrument that didn't weigh a million pounds I would be a happy guy. But, as it stands now, for recording I switch around to whatever guitar makes exactly the right noise that I want and use that. And for the stage I use the Les Paul because it's the most generally suitable guitar for solo-type stuff the way I play. Although the neck isn't as fast as the SG. It really slows me down, it's more cumbersome."He was also never one to settle for a guitar as it stood, getting all sorts of modifications done although, as he said, he was such a nice guy who didn't rant and shout, he was always at the back of the queue for work to be completed. Another example of a time poor player? Where we'd do it ourselves he didn't have the time? Or just not able or interested? Seemingly not cash poor though if this response about a custom built guitar is anything to go by: "I had one custom guitar built for me one time. And I didn't like it. So I'll never do it again." Seems a bit reactionary!
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 13, 2019 11:01:41 GMT
My black HB ST-20 has gone silvery-grey around the edges.... I assumed it was the effect of sunlight but perhaps not. The phenomenon hasn't occurred on my similar black TE-20. Wow. How long have you had that salteedog? Where's it been? My black Squier strat seems as black as ever.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 13, 2019 11:50:34 GMT
An interesting article is available online. Here's Frank's take: "But I like the tone quality and sustain that I get out of the Les Paul, which is due to the bulk of the guitar. "I keep hearing this, over and over and over… and yet, when Darrell Braun made a sustain comparison based on measurements, the thin, lightweight Ibanez S was slightly better than the Les Paul and similar to the PRS he had: The myth of weight and sustain is just another of those coincidental conjunctions, things that are actually not correlated but happen to come together in observations and are wrongly taken as cause and effect. A good guitar will sustain even when it's cut down into pieces, it seems:
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