DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
|
Post by DefJef on Mar 5, 2020 12:33:02 GMT
I have been reading a lot about volume pedals recently and am left non-plussed. I have a Boss ME70 (being BOSS it's buffered) that has its own volume pedal and I sometimes use another 100K volume pedal after it. Sometimes I use this volume pedal in front of it. Sometimes I use it without the ME70 and just a chain of individual pedals. Sometimes these pedals are all true bypass and sometimes they may be a buffered bypass Boss pedal. Sometimes I use the volume pedal in my effects loop. I always use passive pickups. Now, my reading suggests I should use a high impedence volume pedal if I am using non-buffered pedals, and always use a low impedence volume pedal after a buffered pedal or if it's in the effects loop, otherwise I will get a strange effect more like an on-off pedal with no gentle shelving of the volume. Except I don't. That pedal, a cheap Bespeco VM12, sounds and behaves exactly the same in all these situations when tested in my home. I can leave that pedal cocked at 'just audible' and rearrange where it's position is in that old chain, and the sound is still 'just audible'. I can rock it from off to full or full to off and the response is always like a volume pedal. Swells and fades work as normal. Is this odd? Is this because I'm at home? I'm trying to use as long a set of cables as possible to induce impedence or very short ones to reduce it, but nothing changes. Is that 100K Bespeco considered low or high impedence? Perhaps it's neither, just somewhere in between? Perhaps that's perfect? What gives?
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 13:09:40 GMT
Now, my reading suggests I should use a high impedence volume pedal if I am using non-buffered pedals and always use a low impedence volume pedal after a buffered pedal or in the effects loop otherwise I will get a strange effect more like an on-off pedal with no gentle shelving of the volume. I would seriously question that statement.
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 13:14:22 GMT
This tells another story. EB is Ernie Ball.
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 13:25:37 GMT
I'm sure there's an answer somewhere in there. And if not, it's still 50 minutes of mindless escape. We only live once, after all
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 15:41:30 GMT
Maybe Mike knows the answer. He just posted this:
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 16:37:51 GMT
Thanks for the Ernie Ball link LeoThunder . It seems to say what I was saying and reading elsewhere (or at least I hope that was what I was saying 'cos it's what I meant!) yet I don't seem to be experiencing this deleterious effect. Maybe because my pedal is 100K; closer to 25K than 250K? Or at least that's what my pedal's blurb says. Maybe everyone should just get a 100K pedal and screw it all! Well no, it wasn't what you were saying. You spoke of an "on-off" pedal, meaning the volume sweep would be hardly functional. The quote I posted explains that a low impedance pedal would dull out the sound, the same way a low value volume pot would (remember 250K for single coils, 500K for humbuckers, 1M in piercing Jazzmasters). Now in the other case, high impedance after buffer (or a pre-amp in the effect loop, that's a buffer), I don't know what the ill effect should be. I don't quite see why one would have to use low impedance there, one can but I would think anything goes. Your 100K right after passive pick-ups ought to suck high frequencies but certainly not as drastically as 25K. In parallel to the volume pot of the guitar (which I assume is 250K unless you moved on to humbuckers) it makes 72K while a 25K pedal would make a total of 22K. Anyway, I can't say more about the cutting frequency, only that 25K would be worse. These guys are demonstrating stuff:
|
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 17:31:33 GMT
The volume pot of the guitar makes little difference if you use a 25K volume pedal. Or even a 100K.
Vol. Pot Vol. Pedal Equivalent 250 25 22,7 500 25 23,8 1000 25 24,4 250 100 71,4 500 100 83,3 1000 100 90,9
I hear a difference, by the way. It's not a complete killer but it's there:
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 17:38:18 GMT
My opinion on the subject is that pedal boards are medieval by the way. I would use a multi-effect, but the solution to everything is to plug the guitar right into a buffer, then nothing matters any more. Does a tuner have a buffering function?
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Mar 5, 2020 18:13:55 GMT
As I say I do have a multi effects pedal, the Boss ME70. It's a little antiquated and doesn't have the option of arranging the order of effects nor any effects loop of its own so you're a bit stuck with what it gives you. And what it gives you is some fairly bog standard effects and a very inacurate tap tempo button that really infuriates me! Yes, I'm sure you could get something better now. Granted, re-ordering effects beyond the common use could be a problem, but I think that's a very special case that makes no difference. I don't think anyone cares for tonal subtleties beyond those who cook them. What matters is the raw character of a sound, is it soft, clear, aggressive, screaming? Then it's about the notes you play, the phrasing, dynamics. Tone is not music. Speech is not about the sound of the voice. No one was listening to Hendrix in hi-fi back then. If I had to play live, I would get a Vox Tonelab EX or something similar, with 4 or 5 foot switches plus an expression pedal on it and the ability to use them as a pedal board, not as a list of presets. It solves everything. When I see young people discussing boards, power supllies, velcro pads and patch cables, I think they've been brainwashed into wanting "the real thing" their elders talk about.
|
|