brewguy
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by brewguy on Mar 7, 2020 0:39:09 GMT
I just recently got a sc-550 paradise top. First I have to say it is beautiful and sounds great. I’m also a beginner. The string action felt high and measured .100” at 12th fret. I adjusted down the bridge nuts to about .060 to .070. It feels much better but now I’m getting buzz. I can’t tell exactly where it is coming from but it seems close to the nut or at least that area.
Is there a standard action height for these?
Any thoughts what to check next?
It did not buzz until I adjusted the action so possibly I adjusted wrong?
Thanks everyone
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Mar 7, 2020 7:46:57 GMT
I set mine up to gibson specs (easily found on google).
Have you fretted each string over every fret? This usually will show any fret were its choking or buzzing. I presume you have eyeballed the neck.
Also are you putting a capo on the 1st fret and fretting at the closest fret to the body and checking relief at 7th or 8th fret (that should be 0.10)
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Mar 7, 2020 7:47:21 GMT
There is no standard height. 0.06" is perfectly normal. My SC-450 Plus goes down to 1.25 mm / 0.05" at 12th fret on the bass side.
I take it you have buzz on open strings. Your next step is to check the neck relief and remove a back bow if there is one (truss rod adjustment). The neck moves with humidity variations and such a thing is a natural occurence, not a flaw in the instrument.
If the relief is fine, 1st fret action could be too low but I find this unlikely. It would mean the nut was cut too deep, which seldom happens. Cheap guitars tend to have nuts cut too high instead.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Mar 7, 2020 8:28:48 GMT
Just in case, here's an easy way of checking the neck relief (starting at 4:50). I just do it in playing position instead, because the neck will bend a little when the guitar is set flat but this is more accute on bass and I doubt it would make a difference on a Les Paul.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Mar 7, 2020 10:13:14 GMT
Unless its a rubber neck the neck should not bend, irrespective of whether it's flat or in the playing position.
Some people say the strings can sag towards the fretboard when the guitar is flat? Tbh I can't see it making much difference as the strings are under tension. I would do it in the playing position though as it is far easier to see when taking measurements, than having to squat down to eye level if you have the guitar on a bench/table.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Mar 7, 2020 11:16:21 GMT
Unless its a rubber neck the neck should not bend, irrespective of whether it's flat or in the playing position. Some people say the strings can sag towards the fretboard when the guitar is flat? Tbh I can't see it making much difference as the strings are under tension. They do. Put a heavy guitar flat on a neck support and the weight of the body causes a forward bow. Put a bass on your knees with a big Fender headstock balancing in the air and you get a back bow.
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brewguy
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by brewguy on Mar 7, 2020 12:06:28 GMT
See I told you guys I’m new to guitar. Lol I don’t have a capo, I’ll pick one up. Also the buzz is while playing, not open strings. Possibly I need to press a little harder? I will check the neck, I live in Pennsylvania and the guitar came from the other side of the world. So I’m sure humidity plays a role. Now that I think about it. If I play 8 fret and the buzz is up around 2. The action shouldn’t effect that since I’m pressing the string down anyway. The action at the nut is nice and low. I don’t hear the buzz through the amp, maybe a little of that is normal when unplugged? There is no standard height. 0.06" is perfectly normal. My SC-450 Plus goes down to 1.25 mm / 0.05" at 12th fret on the bass side. I take it you have buzz on open strings. Your next step is to check the neck relief and remove a back bow if there is one (truss rod adjustment). The neck moves with humidity variations and such a thing is a natural occurence, not a flaw in the instrument. If the relief is fine, 1st fret action could be too low but I find this unlikely. It would mean the nut was cut too deep, which seldom happens. Cheap guitars tend to have nuts cut too high instead.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Mar 7, 2020 12:26:41 GMT
See I told you guys I’m new to guitar. Lol I don’t have a capo, I’ll pick one up. Also the buzz is while playing, not open strings. Possibly I need to press a little harder? I will check the neck, I live in Pennsylvania and the guitar came from the other side of the world. So I’m sure humidity plays a role. Now that I think about it. If I play 8 fret and the buzz is up around 2. The action shouldn’t effect that since I’m pressing the string down anyway. The action at the nut is nice and low. I don’t hear the buzz through the amp, maybe a little of that is normal when unplugged? That's right, buzz doesn't quite translate into the electrical signal sent to the amp but it chokes your strings, affecting tone and killing sustain. I don't have a capo either. So you hear a buzzing noise from the low end of the neck while playing further up? That's not the usual string buzz. The usual thing is created by the string banging against a fret higher up when vibrating. What you hear could be at the nut. Try putting a finger on it, string by string behind the nut and see if it goes away. Or it could be a loose tuner vibrating along. Or did you leave a pick stuck between the strings around the 1st fret, as most people do? That would buzz along too
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572 posts
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Post by Djangle on Mar 7, 2020 12:41:52 GMT
Here's a paste from the Les Paul Forum....
This is for anyone out there that would like to restore their Les Paul to Gibson factory specs for use, or as a starting point for your own liking.
I've included Dan Erlewine's personal specs. If anyone isn't familiar, Dan Erlewine has worked on and set up many pro guitars, and has the inside scoop on how the pros like their guitars set up.
I believe his book, Guitar Player Repair Guide, has a newer 3rd edition. It's a great book, worth checking out.
Gibson neck relief:
at the 7th fret factory: .012" Dan's: .004"
String height at 12th fret:
Low E factory: 5/64"
High E factory: 3/64"
String height at the nut:
Low E factory: 2/64" (.030") Dan's: .015"
A string factory: 2/64" (.030") Dan's: .014
D string factory: 1.5/64" (.022") Dan's: .013"
G string factory: 1.5/64" (.022") Dan's: .012"
B string factory: 1/64" (.015") Dan's: .010"
High E factory: 1/64" (.015") Dan's: .009"
Pickup Height:
Neck pickup treble side factory: 3/32"
bass side factory: 3/32"
Bridge pickup treble side factory: 1/16"
bass side factory: 1/16"
(pickup height measurement is achieved by depressing high and low E strings at the last fret, from the bottom of the string to the top of the pole pieces.)
Information borrowed from:
Erlewine, Dan: Guitar Player Repair Guide, 2nd Edition, p.27-28 Miller Freeman Books, San Francisco, CA
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brewguy
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by brewguy on Mar 7, 2020 12:51:23 GMT
I watched the video, it is fretting out so I’ll try to adjust the truss rod
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Mar 7, 2020 13:13:27 GMT
I watched the video, it is fretting out so I’ll try to adjust the truss rod Loosen the middle two strings (unless the wrench can move between them, the angle they make on a Les Paul could allow this). Start with 1/4 turn counterclockwise (loosening), or maybe even 1/8 turn. Tune up again - relief is directly affected by string tension so you need them all at pitch. It explains why you'll have to adjust this again if you put thicker or thinner strings. Check relief and repeat until you like what you have. The effect of the truss rod is mostly immediate but there can be a slow after-move. If you have to do a substancial adjustment (1/2 a turn or more), the neck will likely keep moving in the coming hours and you might find it went too far in the other direction on the next morning.
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572 posts
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Post by Djangle on Mar 7, 2020 13:27:55 GMT
Hi brewguy as you are a complete beginner you're probably going to get bogged down in information overload what with learning to play and trying to fix issues with new guitar at the same time. If you don't hear the buzz through the amp then forget it and just concentrate on learning to play just now and worry about set ups later. It will most likely be fixable as long as the truss rod works. If it's annoying you then you need to address the issue now so there's plenty videos on You Tube regarding Les Paul set ups and fixes but you will need some basic cheap tools to get started.....Good luck
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Mar 7, 2020 14:09:16 GMT
Unless its a rubber neck the neck should not bend, irrespective of whether it's flat or in the playing position. Some people say the strings can sag towards the fretboard when the guitar is flat? Tbh I can't see it making much difference as the strings are under tension. They do. Put a heavy guitar flat on a neck support and the weight of the body causes a forward bow. Put a bass on your knees with a big Fender headstock balancing in the air and you get a back bow. When doing any fret work I use a neck caul (the guitar lays flat but the neck is supported along the majority of its length). I have not seen a guitar layed flat across my lap develop an instant back bow. A standard neck support/rest is fine if you are changing strings (to give clearance for a winder). I personally would not do fret work (where pressure is applied), without either taking the neck off (if bolt on) or supporting the neck with a caul. You could use a rolled up blanket or similar if you don't have a neck caul.
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brewguy
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by brewguy on Mar 7, 2020 17:52:32 GMT
I need to read the rest of the comments but I wanted to say I loosened the truss rod about a 1/4 turn and the buzz went away. Set 12th fret to .065 and all seems to be good.
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brewguy
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by brewguy on Mar 7, 2020 17:58:11 GMT
Hi brewguy as you are a complete beginner you're probably going to get bogged down in information overload what with learning to play and trying to fix issues with new guitar at the same time. If you don't hear the buzz through the amp then forget it and just concentrate on learning to play just now and worry about set ups later. It will most likely be fixable as long as the truss rod works. If it's annoying you then you need to address the issue now so there's plenty videos on You Tube regarding Les Paul set ups and fixes but you will need some basic cheap tools to get started.....Good luck Thanks and yes, lots to learn. Having a lot of fun though.
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