34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Apr 18, 2020 15:54:05 GMT
Hello everybody, I am painting my ST-Style kit and preparing it for an upgrade.
I bought the kit to learn about setting up guitars and upgrading. I first assembled it before painting and I was very pleasantly surprised by the feel of the neck. The sound was also pretty nice, but obviously the pickups, although pretty decent and surprisingly sweet (a lot better than Chenders I have tried), lacked considerable definition in comparison with my other strats (ceramic MIMs which I absolutely love, American strat which are the standard reference).
So I want to upgrade the pickups, I have some MIMs and Toneriders lying around. My question is regarding the volume tone pots, which I see are mini pots labeled "50s" and "60s", which seem exactly like low grade China trash, but when I tried them, they did not seem as bad as the Chenders. Probably the difference with the Chenders lies more with the pickups, which are at least decent in the HB.
My question is: should I replace the tone pots, as I am upgrading the pickups? Do standard Alpha pots fit? (Chenders, for instance, have too shallow bodies and standard pots don't fit).
Does the brigde require an upgrade? Do standard bridges fit, or the body is too shallow?
Are tuners like Squier tuners or like Strats? Which ones would fit?
Other two observations: 1. Painting a guitar is an absolute drag. You really have to be into DIY and have a lot of patience. And you really need to paint the body (or clear coat/varnish it to protect it): if you don't, the body will deteriorate very rapidly. Any small ding will make big holes.
2. And the biggest drag of the kit is the form of the headstock: I already had enough with the painting job. Just thinking about cutting wood in the headstock (which is a dangerous thing, be careful) sends me chills.
I would say to Harley Benton / Thomann: please send painted bodies and carved headstocks in your DIY kits, otherwise you should state: A lot of experience and work is necessary. If I look back, I would rather buy an ST-20 or ST-62 and disassemble it to mod it.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Apr 18, 2020 17:24:43 GMT
A lot of people think painting a guitar is an easy five minute job. Unfortunately few realise the preparation required (grain fill, sanding etc) or the final finish sanding and buffing. Add to that the drying time of each coat and between coat fine sanding, its a long laborious task. Tbh the paint/finish is the hardest part of the job on a kit guitar. Especially if the person has little of experience of spraying, wet/dry sanding and buffing. Another important part is masking area's that need to be kept paint free properly (neck joint importantly). Using stain and oil finishes are also not a 5 minute job if done properly. While assembly can be achieved those with virtually no experience. Wiring and soldering can be problematic for those no experience. I do wonder whether these kits are aimed at the experienced or complete novice? Unfortunately the advertising makes it sound a cheap way of building your own custom guitar. There is no mention that to complete it to a professional standard will take weeks/months and not a couple of days. There are more expensive kits out there of superior quality if someone really wants to build their own custom guitar. I can't see the advantage of the cheap kit strat over the cheap strat guitar HB sell? There is not much difference in price either. I get your wanting to use the kit as way of learning set ups etc. Personally I'd buy the cheapest HB tele and mod it to death a couple of times if I wanted to practice. I would do a kit build if they did a model (double cut Les Paul or a thunderbird) I would like but these kits are hard to find in the uk. Regarding the pots mitchmacblues when you say labelled 50s 60s what are you referring to? Are they not labelled A250k or B250k? Are you saying you want to swap to full size pots? Cutting the headstock shouldn't be too bad, not teaching you to suck eggs but I would wrap the neck for protection and clamp it in a vice or to a table. Cut it with a coping saw or similar unless you have access to a band saw.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 18:33:55 GMT
A lot of people think painting a guitar is an easy five minute job. Unfortunately few realise the preparation required (grain fill, sanding etc) or the final finish sanding and buffing. Add to that the drying time of each coat and between coat fine sanding, its a long laborious task. Hahaha. This totally reminds me of my dad (rest in peace) who literally resprayed my first electric guitar in a couple of minutes. Already the next day we reassembled it, and that same night I played a gig with it. What did we know...?
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34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Apr 18, 2020 18:40:00 GMT
Thank you blindwilly, very useful.
It is correct: The mini pots are labeled A250K and B250k in the front. In the back of the pot is where you find the inscription, but my memory was wrong, it says "QY, 16K series". And indeed I would like to change to full sized pots, if the cavity allows. Would they fit? Is it worth it?
Indeed you are right, I now realize for somebody without a lot of experience, tools or space it's much better to buy a cheap Tele or ST and mod it to death. Both the ST kit and the ST20 or TE30 have a great price point and their quality is good, and my experience is that you do save a LOT of time buying the finished guitar. Maybe for a lot of us, psychologically, starting to disassemble and mess with a guitar which works properly, even it is cheap, is more of a mental stumbling block than assembling a guitar from a kit. Disassembling a guitar neck was a particular point on which I was afraid. Harming or warping the neck is the worst thing that can happen to a guitar. It would feel like sacrilege.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Apr 18, 2020 18:41:05 GMT
You was lucky @coldwar1977 0ut of interest did he sand it for a key or just go for it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 19:09:51 GMT
You was lucky @coldwar1977 0ut of interest did he sand it for a key or just go for it? Nope, as far as I can remember no sanding :-)
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Apr 18, 2020 19:22:31 GMT
If you take the neck off as long as you slacken the truss rod so the neck is flat, not much should go wrong.
Those Qy 16k series pots are pretty good I've used those before (got a few in my spares box). If you want to go to full size pots just make sure the shaft length is the same as the QY shafts. A full size pot diameter is 24mm, so as long as the control cavity is above that width you should have no problems. If its tight you can shave the sides of the cavity with a sharp chisel (if your confident).
I haven't had my hands on a HB strat only squier, fender and a couple of other brands so I'm not familiar with the cavity routing on HB. I've swapped pot's and pickups in those I mentioned and had no trouble with the control cavities. The pickup cavities can be quite different squier has 1 big cavity (swimming pool) so swapping single coils for humbuckers is no problem. On Fender strats it's 3 separate cavities (on those I've worked on). It can vary on each guitar.
Personally I'd stick with the QY Pots but it's your choice if you want to go full size. Just check shaft lengths and shaft width can sometimes be different (metric/imperial). That said you can enlarge the holes on the pick guard to accommodate this. The only other thing I will mention is American pots can also have a different number of splines on the top of the shaft so your existing knobs won't fit. So check that as well. 👍
If your unsure of anything don't hesitate to ask questions on here, there will always be someone who will give you answers or advice should you need it. Mostly there is a good bunch of people on this forum.
Hopefully you can post a picture of the strat when you complete her. 😉
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Apr 18, 2020 19:22:56 GMT
You was lucky @coldwar1977 0ut of interest did he sand it for a key or just go for it? Nope, as far as I can remember no sanding :-) It's a wonder it adhered 😁 If I tried that I guarantee it would be peeling off in a couple of hours 😂
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Apr 18, 2020 20:12:50 GMT
mitchmacblues I just realised I never asked what you meant by changing the bridge? When you ask about a bridge fitting the body did you mean the tremolo block? If you did, you need to check the body thickness. You can buy blocks that fit the slimmer bodies if it's not full thickness. I believe Wilkinson still do one and I can't think of the American brand that also makes them I think it may be GFS there may even be a couple of brands who make them. Again if you are going to change the actual bridge assembly and saddles you need to check the size/dimensions between screws/fixing holes and saddle/string spacing as these can vary. Also if the block cavity width will accommodate a larger block without knocking against either side when using the whammy bar.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 19, 2020 3:43:52 GMT
It is correct: The mini pots are labeled A250K and B250k in the front. In the back of the pot is where you find the inscription, but my memory was wrong, it says "QY, 16K series". And indeed I would like to change to full sized pots, if the cavity allows. Would they fit? Is it worth it? No. Not worth it. The size of pots is not related to their "quality". The trimpots in high end Gibsons are minuscule. Change the pots if you find they do not have the proper value (250K is right, that's what you should want unless you replace your pick-ups with humbuckers) or if you dislike the way they work (the way the sweep takes effect), not to "upgrade" them. You say the sound lacks clarity… Raising the value of the volume pot is worth a try if you want to inprove the high end. Using a 500 KOhm pot there will shift the cutting frequency to a higher one and you might be happy with the outcome. It's much cheaper than replacing the pick-ups and it would be an interesting experience.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 19, 2020 4:44:06 GMT
Does the brigde require an upgrade? Do standard bridges fit, or the body is too shallow? The body should have the standard thickness. Just measure it, anyway. I only heard of the Squier Affinity being thinner, never of Harley Benton. The bridge only requires an upgrade if you can tell why. I see everyone and their dog say that a thicker block is better for something but never saw a convincing demonstration of it. I suspect a weightier block can change the way the thing reacts to the hand. When set floating, a thinner block is easier to move, resulting in better response or less felt control. Preferences will depend on acquired habits, a lot like neck profiles. A thicker block will often reduce the span of downward movement allowed by hitting the back of the cavity. See it happen here:
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ttmax
Harley Benton Expert
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Post by ttmax on Apr 25, 2020 20:23:28 GMT
Hello everybody, I am painting my ST-Style kit and preparing it for an upgrade. I bought the kit to learn about setting up guitars and upgrading. I first assembled it before painting and I was very pleasantly surprised by the feel of the neck. The sound was also pretty nice, but obviously the pickups, although pretty decent and surprisingly sweet (a lot better than Chenders I have tried), lacked considerable definition in comparison with my other strats (ceramic MIMs which I absolutely love, American strat which are the standard reference). So I want to upgrade the pickups, I have some MIMs and Toneriders lying around. My question is regarding the volume tone pots, which I see are mini pots labeled "50s" and "60s", which seem exactly like low grade China trash, but when I tried them, they did not seem as bad as the Chenders. Probably the difference with the Chenders lies more with the pickups, which are at least decent in the HB. My question is: should I replace the tone pots, as I am upgrading the pickups? Do standard Alpha pots fit? (Chenders, for instance, have too shallow bodies and standard pots don't fit). Does the brigde require an upgrade? Do standard bridges fit, or the body is too shallow? Are tuners like Squier tuners or like Strats? Which ones would fit? Other two observations: 1. Painting a guitar is an absolute drag. You really have to be into DIY and have a lot of patience. And you really need to paint the body (or clear coat/varnish it to protect it): if you don't, the body will deteriorate very rapidly. Any small ding will make big holes. 2. And the biggest drag of the kit is the form of the headstock: I already had enough with the painting job. Just thinking about cutting wood in the headstock (which is a dangerous thing, be careful) sends me chills. I would say to Harley Benton / Thomann: please send painted bodies and carved headstocks in your DIY kits, otherwise you should state: A lot of experience and work is necessary. If I look back, I would rather buy an ST-20 or ST-62 and disassemble it to mod it. I believe you are right, practically an st-20 offers at the same price an already finished guitar and therefore more suitable for those who just want to improve the hardware. But in this case it is necessary to change everything, tuners, pickups, pots, nut and bridge tremolo. Perhaps at this point for a small difference it is better to aim for an st-62. In this case the excavations are for single pickups and not a single hole like for the st-20. Furthermore, wood, tuners, pickups and pots are decidedly better, so it would be enough to replace the nut and the pickups if they were not to like them. Different speech instead for bridge, passable if little tremolo is used otherwise to replace with a Wilkinson at least. Good job ! White st-20 Red, vintage white, sunburst st-62
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34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Apr 29, 2020 10:42:02 GMT
Haha, ttmax, I am amazed you have three ST-62s and one ST-20, you must really like them! It makes it tempting to buy another one... It will be interesting to know which pickups you upgraded to.
Thanks for the information on the bridges. I am buying some vintage 60s pickups from Donlis and they have also ST bridges, I may buy one from them to try, or from Wilkinson/Encore.
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ttmax
Harley Benton Expert
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Post by ttmax on Apr 29, 2020 12:39:05 GMT
Hi, for you info st-20 grave mini pots st-62 have regular pots 24mm. On st-62 3tsb no mod now have the origins tortoise pickguard (White in picture), on st-62 vw change pickups with Wilkinson and pickguard on st-62 dr the mod Is only Blender and pickguard On st-20 ow neck and bridge hotrail artec humbuckers, midle fender Japan pickup, pots, nuts and Wilkinson tuner. On st-20 ca (First project) neck lace sensor gold, midle di Marzio, bridge Epiphone, Wilkinson tuner, nut and pots. n.b. you can see as Wilkinson (white) tremolo Is bigger thank Harley Benton (Red)
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