|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 11:26:18 GMT
I'm not really a bass player though I do throw some in where required, but I made an observation about cluttering up the sound spectrum today that may hold me in good stead and I've not heard it mentioned before.
I was listening to the Pink Panther Theme on the radio (cutting edge or what?) and noticed that anywhere that the theme is simple (such as at the beginning) the bass is playing really DEEP but simple too and pushes forward in the mix. Once things get a bit more busy the bass plays more stuff but in a HIGHER register so it recedes into the mix and doesn't clutter either.
This is virtually the OPPOSITE of electric guitar where the higher stuff seems to push out of the mix more. So I'm wondering if there is a lesson there for me? If I want my bass to feature heavily go DEEP. When I want to get out of the way of other instruments play higher and as florid as I like and it shouldn't busy things up too much.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:35:37 GMT
The video is disabled by the owner it sais  I think bass sounds best when in its realm of deep rumble, throughout the whole mix. I will try to find a tune where that is evident (must think ... ) I think its shame when bass is "giving space" to anyone because no one can reach as deep as bass can so why move away from there and go higher. This is my taste speaking of course. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:48:22 GMT
Ok it seems one cant watch this vid on another sites, but its ok to watch in on you tube. I personally didnt like the bass in this mix, to my ears its gone to high up and is fighting for the space especially when trumpets kicked in. But my experience is miniscule and I might need to clean my ears too  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 13:57:40 GMT
The video is disabled by the owner it sais I think bass sounds best when in its realm of deep rumble, throughout the whole mix. I will try to find a tune where that is evident (must think ... ) I think its shame when bass is "giving space" to anyone because no one can reach as deep as bass can so why move away from there and go higher. This is my taste speaking of course. Hit the, "Watch this video on YouTube" line and it plays! - how pointless is that? My favourite bass players travel all over the neck and, personally when testing a bass, I reject any that don't sound lovely beyond the 12th fret. There's a lovely human voice aspect to the sound up there. With you saying you like the bass to stay down there below the fifth fret I'm wondering if you don't ever come across a time in mixing when too much is happening because the bass won't get out of the way? I frequently want to point the listener at a lyric line or a keyboard or guitar part (keyboards, in particular can wander into Mr Bass's territory) and I find it is hard to focus the ear if it's being asked to block out superfluous sounds. And I particularly hate it if I've done a bit of bass that I'm very proud of but it's clogging up the soundscape. I'm hoping my new theory is going to help here! Out of interest, when you are multitracking, at what point do you lay down the bass? Because I tend to write with some kind of drum loop playing that I know will be replaced by something better later, I am tending to record bass later and later too AFTER the replaced drums are done as I like the drums and bass to work together. This is totally different to the time-honoured method of drums and bass down first along with a guide track that would be used in a band scenario, probably because if you have the luxury of recording several artists together at the same time they are able to adjust and compromise to each others' playing. The straight-jacket of 'one track at a time' multitracking doesn't allow this and it can all get very stilted, like a marching band. "Oompah Oompah parp parp parp!" |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 14:01:01 GMT
Ok it seems one cant watch this vid on another sites, but its ok to watch in on you tube. I personally didnt like the bass in this mix, to my ears its gone to high up and is fighting for the space especially when trumpets kicked in. But my experience is miniscule and I might need to clean my ears too Ah well, I found the opposite. When the focus is on the trumpets I find it great that the bass clears a way for them. Vive la difference! |
|
|
|
Post by GKon on Feb 4, 2016 14:40:23 GMT
I believe the lower register of the bass is why bass was specifically created as an instrument, to add low end to a piece of music.
Nevertheless, the bass does posses notes up to and above the 12th fret, which are also valid and have their place in the bass spectrum.
All in all, I believe that a major part of the inclusion of bass in a piece of music is to lead when necessary, accompany when necessary,
and to help the song move along, giving a pulse as to the feeling and direction of the piece. That being said, sometimes it is better
to stay in the low register and other times in the high.
To put it simply, I believe you play what the music needs in a particular section.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 16:00:00 GMT
Ok it seems one cant watch this vid on another sites, but its ok to watch in on you tube. I personally didnt like the bass in this mix, to my ears its gone to high up and is fighting for the space especially when trumpets kicked in. But my experience is miniscule and I might need to clean my ears too Ah well, I found the opposite. When the focus is on the trumpets I find it great that the bass clears a way for them. Vive la difference!  dont you find that once the trumpets kicked in, which are in the higher register, and bass joins them up there, that the bottom end was deserted and lacking. I dont think the bass should stay low to be in the way but to balance the instrument sin the higher register. To my ear in this particular tune once the trumpets kicked in and the bass left its low register everything sounded too thin. How is that "clears the way for them" when the sonic boat is being knocked to its side entirely. But then again the recording is not of the best quality so maybe I am missing on some other instrument holding the low side so the bass can leave its post and go high joining the trumpets (I listen with AKG 55 headphones which have rich bass) But you might be right vive la difference might be it  or simply my lack of experience in recording. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 16:34:37 GMT
Ok, I must correct myself after listening again and comparing to some other videos ... nothing wrong with that bass walking up and down the register what that bass lacks is an umph, the growl I personaly love to hear no matter if in the lower or higher register. I like this version more  no trumpets though |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 17:36:23 GMT
Ah well, I found the opposite. When the focus is on the trumpets I find it great that the bass clears a way for them. Vive la difference! dont you find that once the trumpets kicked in, which are in the higher register, and bass joins them up there, that the bottom end was deserted and lacking. I dont think the bass should stay low to be in the way but to balance the instrument sin the higher register. To my ear in this particular tune once the trumpets kicked in and the bass left its low register everything sounded too thin. How is that "clears the way for them" when the sonic boat is being knocked to its side entirely. But then again the recording is not of the best quality so maybe I am missing on some other instrument holding the low side so the bass can leave its post and go high joining the trumpets (I listen with AKG 55 headphones which have rich bass) But you might be right vive la difference might be it or simply my lack of experience in recording. It is a terrible recording but I thought it might be fun to watch some 70s suits whilst listening. I think that the knocking the sonic boat to its side is exactly what I mean. It wakes you up and allows you to focus on the new part of the arrangement. It's one of the reasons I'm no fan of loopers or repetitive minimalism. I like the arrangement to change so I don't nod off (I might be driving). So I suppose what I was discovering this morning was that to FEATURE the bass at any given moment I need to think oppositely to how I would feature the guitar - by dropping into the lowest register rather than moving up higher. When I want to give focus to middle range instruments it may be best to JOIN them in that range. It may seem counter intuitive but it's interesting that, although you didn't like it, it actually worked to your ears too: you went 'where's the bass gone' when it hadn't gone at all. |
|
|
|
Post by JAC on Feb 4, 2016 17:37:32 GMT
The reason that Che doesn't like the original is because there are no effects  Seriously though, I agree that the bass in the second video sounds great when the guitar is playing, but in my opionion it sounds far too dark for the solo part. You also need to consider the 50 years difference in recording technology and effects that let you add 0.001db to the frequency of 103.42Hz I am pretty sure the bassist in the original video only had 2 knobs, and they were both on his bass  then the sound guy probably had another 4 knobs (or less) to play with. So, Tanya has basically more knobs on the bass than Mancini had on the desk. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 17:41:44 GMT
Ok, I must correct myself after listening again and comparing to some other videos ... nothing wrong with that bass walking up and down the register what that bass lacks is an umph, the growl I personaly love to hear no matter if in the lower or higher register. I like this version more no trumpets though That really kicked ass once the guitarist got himself involved but for me that opening was a deeply unpleasant experience. It sounded like my central heating warming up in the morning. Mind you, having said that, one of my earliest memories is being sat in a pushchair next to a concrete mixer with an engine cylinder that kept misfiring. That combined with the stones rattling around inside created some great polyrhythms. Of course I was too young to know any of that was happening at the time, all I thought was, 'hey, great beat'. I never heard anything like it again until Bill Bruford discovered Africa. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 17:54:12 GMT
You lads are just jealous because she is a girl kicking some serious a.s on that bass I agree on the solo part being too dark but that fixed it would have been just awesome (to my ears, ... damn it I forgot to clean them, I will do it as soon I press the reply button) |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 17:56:46 GMT
You lads are just jealous because she is a girl kicking some serious a.s on that bass I agree on the solo part being too dark but that fixed it would have been just awesome (to my ears, ... damn it I forgot to clean them, I will do it as soon I press the reply button) Oops, sorry Che, I was just editing my reply whilst you posted yours. I have tempered my response so you may find that we both agree now! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:14:40 GMT
My video response was more for fun because in truth your video features soooo many instruments which have to find the way to work together, so a much tougher deal than having just a guitar, bass n drums. And sure the bassist in your vid didnt even bring a Big Muff on that stage, w t f , of course its missing a few FX pedals to juice up the bass sound, a bit of Delay, Phaser, some Distortion, and a few drops of Tequila, then the bass sound would just be right  But to be serious now, I wish our bass heads would give you a more precise answer to your ponderings in the OP cause Im just far from the Deep and I always mess my bass sound with effects (you should try FX JAC you might find some genius hiding in them) |
|
|
|
Post by JAC on Feb 4, 2016 21:54:40 GMT
...you should try FX JAC you might find some genius hiding in them... I have a multieffect pedal that I use regularly... it has a 15.6" screen a mouse and a keyboard  I am just more of the kind that thinks less is more (and then I go to the other extreme and play dubstep ) |
|
