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Post by nytar on Mar 6, 2016 22:09:38 GMT
Ive been looking up and hunting everything I can about HB line of guitars since I found out about them a few weeks ago. there are a few very inexpensive ones I am looking at. my main question tho is about the SC-450/SC-550 and Paradise flame versions.
1: playability, which seems to have the most ease of play? A: soft feel/low action B: neck shape/thickness I: from body joint, mid section, "scarf area"
2: sound/tone A: I am wanting the "GnR" sounds from appetite yes I know they have the Para flame but it is seriously stretching my budget with this one. I: next closest pickups II: closest pick up per monetary denomination. B: able to step outside of just GnR sound for other "LP" artists.
so far I have a squire strat (my starter guitar thats a couple years old and now getting back into learning again), PRS Santana SE (I love this one was over budget by a lot for it but has made learning a pleasure), and an Epiphone SG g-400 or something like that. its nice but plays a bit "stiff"
Squire is very versatile but does not "fit" some sounds I am looking for. Santana of course for the smooth clean sustains like santana. Epi SG... AC/DC of course lol. a few others.
trying to fill Hair, Glam, heavier Metal (getting WL-20bk for this) then the big one I am swimming with is the LP sounds. I don't have a "perfect ear" but can tell if its Slash (or who ever on a LP) vrs someone else (yes style of play, touch etc goes in.) but there is that line of "is it?" that I am hoping for.
I really hope I haven't baffled anyone TOO much lol. any help in making a decision so I can pull the trigger on a purchase would be very welcomes, and in advance THANKS! any questions on my questions I'll be more then happy to explain or expand.
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Post by nytar on Mar 6, 2016 22:15:01 GMT
OH! almost forgot, since the Epi SG is so stiff to play (sounds awesome tho) is there any thing HB has that is real close to sound but easier to play? it was said Angus played the SG for being "easier" for his small hands but as I said the Epi SG feels very hard, even with the 9s put on (down from stock 10s).
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703 posts
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Post by gullum on Mar 6, 2016 22:55:10 GMT
I have the L450+ and SC500 vintage bout are easy to play on and sound good too The 450 still has the wilkinson pickups and sounds really nice for rock/hard rock the SC500 I never really tested the stock pickups because I bought it because I wanted a Jams Hatfield guitar and installed EMG in it. The DC vintage or custom would be a good alternative for that Epiphone SG
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Mar 6, 2016 23:13:25 GMT
Hi there and welcome nytar. I'm interested that you say the SG is stiff to play in comparison to your Strat and PRS. If I'm right then the strat has the longest scale length at 25.5 inches and the PRS the shortest at 24.5 inches with the SG coming in between at 24.75 inches. When I swapped from a strat to a Les Paul I was expecting easier bends due to the shorter scale length and was surprised to find that this was not so. The reason for this would appear to be, not the scale length, but the full string length from tuner to its terminus at the other end. Now then, I am making an assumption here but I'm thinking that your SG has not got a Bigsby or similar vibrato unit on it? That being the case then your PRS and particularly your strat have significantly longer strings than your SG because they need to continue into the vibrato unit instead of stopping at a fixed bridge. Although the strat has the longest strings and therefore the highest tension to get it to the same pitch, it also has the greatest leverage. I'm interested how the PRS feels in comparison to the strat and how that low tension vs high tension play-off makes itself known. You're unlikely to find much difference between the SG's stiffness and a Les Paul's as the basic setup is the same. I'm also surprised that you can't nail Slash like tones from that PRS. I'd have thought it was ideal unless the trem and shorter scale length are reducing the sustain. But then again Santana and lack of sustain are not two concepts that are easy to put together!
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Post by nytar on Mar 7, 2016 0:42:15 GMT
Hi there and welcome nytar . I'm interested that you say the SG is stiff to play in comparison to your Strat and PRS. If I'm right then the strat has the longest scale length at 25.5 inches and the PRS the shortest at 24.5 inches with the SG coming in between at 24.75 inches. When I swapped from a strat to a Les Paul I was expecting easier bends due to the shorter scale length and was surprised to find that this was not so. The reason for this would appear to be, not the scale length, but the full string length from tuner to its terminus at the other end. Now then, I am making an assumption here but I'm thinking that your SG has not got a Bigsby or similar vibrato unit on it? That being the case then your PRS and particularly your strat have significantly longer strings than your SG because they need to continue into the vibrato unit instead of stopping at a fixed bridge. Although the strat has the longest strings and therefore the highest tension to get it to the same pitch, it also has the greatest leverage. I'm interested how the PRS feels in comparison to the strat and how that low tension vs high tension play-off makes itself known. You're unlikely to find much difference between the SG's stiffness and a Les Paul's as the basic setup is the same. I'm also surprised that you can't nail Slash like tones from that PRS. I'd have thought it was ideal unless the trem and shorter scale length are reducing the sustain. But then again Santana and lack of sustain are not two concepts that are easy to put together! my strat played rather well when I first got it out of the box. it wasnt super soft by any mean but was very well playable for a beginner. when I took it in and had them take a look at it at the "big box store" he made a few adjustments as I figured there would be due to a couple years just sitting on the stand looking pretty. new strings, trus adjustment, action height etc. brought it home and it home and it seemed a bit highish and had a bit of fret buzz still. wasnt the happiest camper and even the old strings felt easier to manipulate then these new ones even after a couple weeks. so I go in to see if I could find something to peak my interest. it was between the Santana SE and the Epi SG. I loved the range of tones the SG provided as it had the split coil nobs etc going for it. very versatile but the Santana felt good and after new strings it has and still feels like elastic silk in my fingers. I can play very soft and everything still rings very well. I went back and had to get the SG the next day I was that impressed with the range (I was not only over budget I was living thin for a while now too lol). but even after new strings I brought it home and tried to do things I could do on my strat and Santana. some notes I could not get the notes like they should and it felt like a lot more work then my untrained hands are ready for yet. the sounds are there, just work to get them. the SG has a huge range of tones/feels. I think it would be much better in the hands of someone thats been playing longer and has the dexterity/strength already in their hands. the Santana has awesome sustain that gets me into a bit of trouble at times lol. extra sensitive stings and long notes so it can sound a bit messy as I move my hand after "chopping" the strings if I move wrong it will humm the string enough to send signal. but omg its to smooth to put down. as for tones yes I can use it for almost any style of music that I like. but in some areas it still misses just a little of something to hit the mark for me. partially/mainly cause the difference in pickups. while awesome pickups they are not the zebra/reverse zebra alnico II etc or "similar". the strat.. well it feels and sounds like a mid range strat does even tho its a lower end for that company. I am guessing what you mean by the difference and how they make themselves known is what the difference is in the feel? strat feels.. well like a strat (or used to I think the guy at the shop made some things worse imo, Im going to use this as an opportunity to learn how to do my own setups at this point to hunt for the right feel for me) the PRS.. like I mentioned elastic silk. very easy to get the sting to the fret/fretboard. instead of using 2-3 fingers for a big bend I can usually get away with a single finger bend on the PRS. the strat sustain is about typical (again better before I took it in.. talk about a waste of 50 bucks) the PRS while its not the full Santana signature endless sustain I love. it can hold 2-3 times longer then either of the other 2. not sure if that answers your inquiries or not. if not let me know how I can clarify them
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Mar 7, 2016 9:37:22 GMT
Nice run down on these guitars nytar. I'm still a bit confused as to what you mean by the SG feeling 'stiff'. Are we talking the action here or something else? I had assumed you meant the ability to bend a string and I do apologise if that wasn't your meaning. That's why I went off on one about string length and vibratos. You may have thought I'd gone quite mad. That PRS sounds like a cracker and I'll have to see if one would suit me. Have you played a normal scale length one to compare the characteristics of the two? You're right about doing your own setups in future though. I'm not sure I'd want anyone else to do mine and do hate it when other people ask me to do theirs because I'm generally going to set their guitar up as I like it. Last time I played a friends ES335 I realised how much nicer the action was compared to mine so I lowered my action to almost buzz at low E. Of course my friend then played mine and wanted me to do the same to his. We seem to be in a battle to have no action at all! There can be only one winner and it won't be the music.
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Post by nytar on Mar 7, 2016 19:27:58 GMT
Nice run down on these guitars nytar . I'm still a bit confused as to what you mean by the SG feeling 'stiff'. Are we talking the action here or something else? I had assumed you meant the ability to bend a string and I do apologise if that wasn't your meaning. That's why I went off on one about string length and vibratos. You may have thought I'd gone quite mad. That PRS sounds like a cracker and I'll have to see if one would suit me. Have you played a normal scale length one to compare the characteristics of the two? You're right about doing your own setups in future though. I'm not sure I'd want anyone else to do mine and do hate it when other people ask me to do theirs because I'm generally going to set their guitar up as I like it. Last time I played a friends ES335 I realised how much nicer the action was compared to mine so I lowered my action to almost buzz at low E. Of course my friend then played mine and wanted me to do the same to his. We seem to be in a battle to have no action at all! There can be only one winner and it won't be the music. the action is a little high for my tastes. but the strings themselves feel/bend like a heavier gauge. they are the same 9s as my other two but react like hard 10s or softer 11s. I dont know... could the strings they used have already been bad out of the package? they seems "stiff" as in the strings themselves. I dont know if thats the total string length from tuner to end point, action, string quality (they are identical strings in length and maker/model as the other two tho). the original tens were on it when I had the guy at the shop play them but there again... he is probably used to heavier strings having played longer then I have. so someone with a year or two can play it fine where I am still building finger strength. the tones are there, my fingers are not lol. for the SE version vrs the non SE version are almost identical in the parts where it counts so not sure what you mean by comparing normal scale length as those both have the same length. while the SE has 22 frets and the regular has 24. of course the SG is standard length for a Gib/Epi and the squire is standard fender strat length. Ive been getting interested in the whole luthier process. Im looking at buying a few more tools to complete what Id need. my family has lots of tools out in the barn/shop already so it would just be the special files, straight edge for frets, and some other measuring devices. I have few dozen design ideas I want to try to see if they are possible already lol. P.S. (edit) if the SG "felt" more like the PRS it would probably be my main guitar as the tone ranges and variances are so dramatic I wouldn't need much else.
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Post by john on Mar 7, 2016 20:54:13 GMT
Maybe people need to get away from the technicalities & play a guitar for what it is.
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Post by nytar on Mar 7, 2016 21:21:47 GMT
defjef no, the santana's were the only ones I ever considered from the PRS line. so I dont know how the others feel unfortunately.
john, I see technicalities as an essential part of playing guitar. much like there are similar accents of people each country/province has a slight variance. even to individual characteristics of a single individual. much like food, where you can use the "same" ingredients, and get different textures depending on finer details of each ingredient. end who cut them, the utensils preparing them. most things in life can be changed by very small factors. thats like when dating you can have two women identical in almost every way it could be the one or two small details that changes things from just liking a person to being passionately in love with them.
I may have an emotion that I feel grungy heavy and mean so I would want a guitar to convey it with no mistaking. I wouldn't want the feel/tone of johnny cash if playing metal. so while my STYLE might differ from slash I would like to have that base feel when conveying that emotion. I cant afford to copy every influence of mine in the guitar world lol. but I would like to get as close as my limited budget would allow.
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Post by john on Mar 7, 2016 21:34:22 GMT
Each to their own my friend. Good luck in your quest.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Mar 7, 2016 21:44:42 GMT
Maybe people need to get away from the technicalities & play a guitar for what it is. A lot of truth in this. As long as a guitar isn't making a godawful noise I can usually enjoy myself on anything and get a tone that serves a song on most things. And if I can't I make some adjustments to what I'm playing and roll on with a big smile on my face 'cos I've had to do something new. Necessity...Mother etc.
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Post by nappel on Mar 8, 2016 9:29:50 GMT
OH! almost forgot, since the Epi SG is so stiff to play (sounds awesome tho) is there any thing HB has that is real close to sound but easier to play? it was said Angus played the SG for being "easier" for his small hands but as I said the Epi SG feels very hard, even with the 9s put on (down from stock 10s). do you know how to setup a guitar? is the trussrod tight? is there a bow in the neck? i setup my necks completely flat,no bows,you can also try to raise tge string holder behind the bridge. it can help to give you an easier plaxing guitar and even more sustain
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Mar 8, 2016 9:48:15 GMT
do you know how to setup a guitar? is the trussrod tight? is there a bow in the neck? i setup my necks completely flat,no bows,you can also try to raise tge string holder behind the bridge. it can help to give you an easier plaxing guitar and even more sustain That's the way I like 'em nappel. I now trust you to do mine.
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Post by nytar on Mar 8, 2016 21:46:56 GMT
I went into looking at things on the SG. we had talked a bit about action height and length of strings etc. it always seemed a bit high but figured the guy setting up/repairing the guitar would have made sure it was near stock if it wasnt other wise specified as a personal preference. I was sooo wrong. now it maybe backyard mechanic in me but I needed to figure out a way to approximate the measuring. SO.... how does one measure something so precise without fine luthier tools and my micrometer hasnt been ordered yet (sale coming on them soon so waiting for the huge sale). I grabbed my misc. sized picks I got as a sampler when I got the squire. a couple of .50s and one 1.0 gave me 2.0mm (near dead on 5/64") it had a huge gap. using the other picks adding them in and out I went clear to .70 and the string at 15th with 1st fret down only grazed the picks when struck... so closest I was able to figure out it is somewhere around 7.5/64s". yes I know that is a decimal pointed fraction but easiest way for me to explain. could it being 50% to high of an action make it feel so bloody stiff? the truss rod is near flat. paper width at the 7th when fully fretted at the 1st and 15th (which btw was very hard to accomplish as I didnt loosen any before hand like an idiot lol). no more big box store set ups for me. Im really thinking this is the area that is in the most problem. lol asked about some HB models and getting help to save one of my other babies. you guys are awesome
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