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Post by cjacko22 on Sept 15, 2021 16:09:58 GMT
Can anyone who has upgraded the electronics in the HB35+ provide the parts they used? Pots, toggles etc.
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strummer
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by strummer on Sept 16, 2021 6:47:42 GMT
Sorry, wish I could help. Anything is particular you don't like about the default electronics?
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Post by rockke on Sept 16, 2021 12:21:07 GMT
You can searc for example, similar upgrade parts or complete wiring kits for Gibson/Epiphone ES-335.
But... I upgraded electronics (pots, caps, wires, toggle switch, input jack) to my SC-Special. Not anykind of upgrade to sound. So, if you want to improve tone, maybe better to chance pickups at same time.
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Post by cjacko22 on Sept 17, 2021 14:59:40 GMT
You can searc for example, similar upgrade parts or complete wiring kits for Gibson/Epiphone ES-335. But... I upgraded electronics (pots, caps, wires, toggle switch, input jack) to my SC-Special. Not anykind of upgrade to sound. So, if you want to improve tone, maybe better to chance pickups at same time. Do you think it was worth upgrading those electronics?
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kz
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by kz on Sept 19, 2021 8:27:55 GMT
Well updating electronics is quite a challenge on the HB-35 (I have the non-plus version). Not because of the wiring, but, because your only access to the guitar are the f-holes (that's why the ES335 have the switch near the control buttons). If you do it multiple times, you will find a tricks to do it effectively but the first time it was a suffering...
For all the component, there are several price categories. Depends on your budget.
1) Wire - The HB uses standard guitar shielded wire that is actually a quite fine. Because the switch placement (long wire distances), it is good to have the wire shielded and that means, that you want to have the capacitance of the shielded wire lowest as possible ( Guitar Wire Capacitance). The provided link deals with the instrument cable, but the logic can be applied to the internal wiring too. In short words, you want wire, that is at least the same parameters, that the HB one or better.
2) Pots - It is good to decide, whether you want to use A500k (log - audio taper) or B500k (linear taper) pots for volume controls (tone is usually log). The type of taper provides different feel to the volume control. The big internet discussion about this is mostly caused by the volume you are playing at. The cheap guitar use mostly linear taper, because it more suits to lower volume control (home use). The working musicians often prefer the classic log taper, because you can achieve finer control with high volume/gain. I'm using log taper, because it is the expected one (A = audio taper), was used in classic wiring and for me it is good even for low volume playing. Beware - The HB now has the linear taper, so the pot will behave differently after upgrade. For the pots, look for the bigger versions (~24 mm). You can search for cheaper - AllParts / Partsland up to CTS. Check for the size of the thread on the pots - The HB has metric M8 diameter, the CTS and US pots, could have roughly ~M10 thread - so the hole in the guitar needs to be enlarged (slowly and with a reamer!). To keep the Push/Pull you need the push-pull variant of the pot. Check the original dimensions of the components, because you need to fit the whole thing in through the f-hole and there is not much space.
3) The HB Switch is usually cheap "box" switch that is good to upgrade to the Switchcraft style. As with the pots - there are cheaper and expensive variants form the mentioned brands. Remove the cap before installing.
4) Capacitors - depending on the pickups, but the HB has ~47nF value ceramic. If you want to go more traditional axial film capacitors at ~22nF are better options. The value has more effect, that the brand - but the axial looks cooler. I'm usually using old Tesla 22nf capacitors (old Czech electronic company) but the classic Mallory or others will work the same.
5) Output jack - The default works well but it could be replaced with more reliable one - good to go. Beware - the thread on the jack is unusually high (at least in my HB-35), so with standard replacement the threaded part could be little bit shorter and you will not able to fit the washer on.
6) Wiring - well pick your diagram and try... solder the parts good, because fitting them through the f-hole puts them through the 1st test of reliability :-)
7) Pickups - The defaults are quite fine (Roswell), but it depends on your taste and budget.
Consider to upgrade the plastic parts (and measure properly the spacing), because the plastic could do a lot to the looks of the guitar.
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kz
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by kz on Sept 19, 2021 10:28:19 GMT
One more thing - Check for tolerances and measure the values: Capacitors - manufacturing tolerances could be from 5% to 20%. Try to get the 5% (it is manufacturing class for the parts) - in the case the value should be fine. Measure the value to be sure.
Potentiometers - The lower quality the more they could vary in values (could be around ~20%). For cheaper pots it is usually a good practice to buy more pieces and get the best ones by measuring the actual value. The value could vary even form 420k to 580k. Higher value is usually fine (you could get more brightness), but it is better to avoid the pots below 480k to get close to the intended design and sound. CTS and some guitar oriented companies are manufacturing the pots as ~550k so you will receive the pot always with value above 500k even with the same tolerances. The CTS-like brands have also usually different (better) taper progress, so the volume sweep is better suited for guitars.
The discussion of exact values and parts could be endless - the whole circuit is mix of components with sightly different tolerances and values, that all affect the output tone - from the strings, guitar wood, through pickups, electronics, up to the amplifier and speaker, even how you play...
So there are recommended, time tested values, that was found to usually sound good. Changing each part will affect the tone a little bit and the result will be unique / different - this is the risk and also the thrill of these upgrades. It will sound different after the upgrade...
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 19, 2021 11:11:43 GMT
Nice Post kz. I've been banging on for a few years about pot/cap tolerances. Good to see someone else suggest getting extra components to aid matching values. Too many people take 500k or 250k stamped on the pots as gospel.
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Post by rockke on Sept 20, 2021 4:51:22 GMT
You can searc for example, similar upgrade parts or complete wiring kits for Gibson/Epiphone ES-335. But... I upgraded electronics (pots, caps, wires, toggle switch, input jack) to my SC-Special. Not anykind of upgrade to sound. So, if you want to improve tone, maybe better to chance pickups at same time. Do you think it was worth upgrading those electronics? No. My guitar saunded just like it was, before swapping electronics for "better ones". I used CTS pots, Switchcraft jack, Mojotone caps, Gibson wires. There is a lot of opinions how better electronics do the magig, but I think best result is swappin all. Mostly, when you swap pickups too at the same time, you wont know that swapping electronics had little to none effect to tone...
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Post by alexher on Feb 18, 2023 17:44:05 GMT
Hi! Can anyone help with a picture of the HB 35+ wiring of the volume pots? Have the new pots her, but do not know where to solder the cables.
Hoping that you can help...
Cheers Alex
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kz
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
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Post by kz on Feb 28, 2023 20:05:59 GMT
Well, it is quite difficult to do a picture of wiring on this type of guitar and I don't really want to remove the wiring form my guitar. So few notes, the wiring is similar to LP-modern style, but because of the shape of the guitar and placement of the components the wires and their length needs to be accommodated to the instrument. Yeah, it is a pain to get the components out of the guitar and more pain to get them back (usually you will have bigger pots/capacitors and shorter wires). You can check Throbak wiring diagrams or search for ES-335 wiring (beware, the components placement is closer to HB-35, but still quite different). It is a good practice to copy the guitar holes and f-hole etc. to a cardboard template to properly hold the pots in place and create optimal paths for the wires. Mind that you are soldering in opposite view, and that you need some additional slack for the components to be able to more easily position them through the small f-hole and that you don't want a wires to be visible through the f-hole. You also need to solder the ground wire form the bridge insert to the new wiring, so you don't want to cut that (original) wire too short and also the output jack on HB-35 has a little taller thread so standard output jacks might not to fit all the way through. Once you remove the original wiring, mark the pots (or put in template) and it could guide you to recreate the wiring with new components... Good luck!
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