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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 10:21:37 GMT
I'm with you (sort of) on covers. I find that if I like somebody else's song it is because I like it THAT WAY. I love Talk Talk's 'I Don't Believe in You' for instance simply because of how it gut wrenchingly sounds. Now, I could try and copy it note for note and drum for drum but why would I want to? It already exists like that and I may not like it anywhere near as much if it were rearranged a different way. However (and this is a big however, unlike a big but which is a different thing altogether  ) what learning to play it would do is teach me why it is gut wrenching like that. Is it the musical intervals of the chords, is it the tone of the voice, is it the metronomic drumming, the clear production, the awe inspiring guitar solo? And what a lesson that is. I have learned a whole bunch of techniques - simple little twitches - that add the sort of expression that I want in this way. My fingers learn new arpeggio patterns that they would never have naturally played because they didn't have that particular muscle memory but, once learned never forgotten, so that they can be put to good use elsewhere. It's like everybody learns to walk yet we can often recognise somebody in the far distance just by the way they walk. Yet the idea to walk in itself may not be innate. You may remember stories of children that have been raised in the wild and crawl about like wolves or monkeys. The notion to walk just seems like a good one when we see others do it. The rest is up to us.  So it can be very useful to see how a song is put together as a journey and not as a destination in itself. I've always been a traveller rather than a tourist.  |
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Post by salteedog on May 2, 2017 14:34:54 GMT
Very true @defjef. Most great musicians have a toolbox of personal licks/techniques/habits that one cannot find in the textbooks and which 'personalize' their sound. Sometimes very subtle.
And I was going to agree with you in relation to "I don't believe in you" but actually it's their other song "I believe in you" that for me has a distinct magic that's not quite there in other performances - like the cover by Bon Iver although he keeps pretty close to the original.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 14:42:03 GMT
Ah but I Believe in You is on that mawkish Spirit of Eden album that is clearly never going to gel with me. It's hanging on by its fingertips in my mp3 collection - I've even got the vinyl version in my rack - in the hope that one day I will warm to it's charms. I'm losing patience and hope with it though. It makes me want to kick Hollis's a*se and shout "Wake up! Listen to what you used to do."
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Post by salteedog on May 2, 2017 15:01:48 GMT
We'll agree to disagree Jeff. I think it's their best work and it never gets old. Every listen reveals some new magic. ....but I love the Colour of Spring too  ...and also the song "The Colour of Spring" from the solo album. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 15:10:57 GMT
Ah that solo album. I remember waiting up to late at night to hear Hollis plonk his piano on Radio 3. I was so disappointed that he was still mining that thin seam. It's his only work that I didn't bother to buy. As with Elvis Costello I remained as faithful as possible but recognised when I wasn't going to get any more from them and searched the open plains anew. Funnily enough, nobody got any more from Mark at that point either whether they wanted to or not. I did buy that rarities and B sides album and seem to remember there was one track on there that held my attention but clearly not for long as I've completely forgotten what that was either.  |
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Post by salteedog on May 2, 2017 15:28:57 GMT
I've be waiting for a follow up for ever. It's a great record but you have to be in the mood. Like Spirit of Eden it's one for late hours listening alone. Sometime the thin seam is all one needs.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 11:29:54 GMT
I'm still applying myself to I Believe in You salteedog . I decided to do a slight edit of it and I'm preferring it a bit now. I'm planning to insert it into my Colour of Spring album as I think it can bit in there quite well and I can start to appreciate it a bit more. But where would it best fit to suit the flow? Not at the end, I don't think, 'cos the end is perfect as it is. In my head I can hear it straight after I Don't believe in You and before Life's What You Make It. It would break up the poppier hits. Any better suggestions? Oh and I'd probably be underestimating you if I thought you didn't already have this album but I'll take a punt anyway: Beth Gibbons with Paul Webb (AKA Rustin Man): |
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Post by salteedog on May 3, 2017 13:24:53 GMT
Maybe either before or after "Living in another World". Tonally it's quite similar to 'April 5th' so I'm not sure if it would work straight after that. Re. the Beth Gibbons/Rustin Mann album - actually I don't have it and only now do I get the Talk Talk connection. I was aware of her work but never bothered with it as I was kind of turned off by Portishead back in the day. Will need to give that a proper listen now. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 13:33:26 GMT
May not be your cup of char. Totally un-Portishead. May be a bit too folk. Still it's atmospheric. Oh and Lee Harris is on it too. Just had a go at wedging it between Apr 5 and Living and it works nicely. There's actually a nice pickup of the beat from the almost beatless April 5. I always found the end of Apr 5 to Living a bit of a crash so this will solve that nicely. Good call. You should be in charge of The Bentonites track ordering. Now. Where to squish in Hollis's Colour of Spring song? |
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Post by salteedog on May 3, 2017 13:39:54 GMT
Oh..but it cannot be too folk for me. I also just realised that Paul Webb/Rustin Mann produced an album I am very fond of:-
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 14:56:13 GMT
The £45 dg kit will cost about a euro to do yourself , a wire from the two of the mini switch terminals to each of the neck and bridge connections on the 5 way switch. I do agree that it is the biggest part of his tone Papache, maybe you should try this first As far as I am aware, wildturkey , the so-called David Gilmour mod is not even on his Red EMG strat that he used from the demise of Waters era Pink Floyd to around 2005. Not unless he has a push pull pot that we don't know about. I've never seen him push or pull one. That's 20 years of Gilmour tone without the mod. Not to mention all those years before the first mod one in '72 which was gone by '73 and which didn't re-emerge till 1978 when it finally stayed. So the only albums we can hear the mod on is Dark Side, The Wall and The Final Cut. Not on Meddle with its sublime Echoes. Not on Wish You Were Here. Nor Animals. Three of the most Gilmour laden and regularly played recordings that I own. With this in mind and countless solos on which he didn't even use the black strat (Time, Dogs, Another Brick etc) or didn't engage the switch (Comfortably Numb main solo), and it seems that Gilmour has been more often able to conjure up his tone without the switch than with it! Still, it's a nice sound the old neck and bridge together. A bit Jazzmastery. I believe Ironstone do a scratchplate on which the switch not only gives the classic Gilmour neck and bridge in parallel option but neck and bridge in series too for the ultimate fat boost. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 13:59:24 GMT
Sudden thought. With the Gilmour Mod, if you switch on the neck so that it is is on with the bridge then they are surely not reverse wound reverse polarity and not hum cancelling? Are they in series or parallel too?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 23:21:25 GMT
We'll agree to disagree Jeff. I think it's their best work and it never gets old. Every listen reveals some new magic. ....but I love the Colour of Spring too ...and also the song "The Colour of Spring" from the solo album. Just came across this rare interview with Talk Talk's producer, Tim Friese-Greene salteedog. Seems he's got some of the same doubts about Spirit of Eden as I have! Great read though...if you can forgive him. www.pennyblackmusic.co.uk/MagSitePages/Article/3930/Tim-Friese-Greene-Interview |
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Post by salteedog on Jun 8, 2017 10:38:48 GMT
Nice one. Sometimes it's better to not know how sausages (or albums) are made!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 10:50:57 GMT
...mmmm...sausages.....
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