34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Jun 18, 2018 8:33:03 GMT
Hi everybody, do you think that the SC450 Vintage Plus stands its ground compared to the Vintage V100?
The Harley is way cheaper (half the price) but at least the 2017 model has the Wilkinson MWCHB ceramic pickups which sound surprisingly nice, and I think are essentially the same as the Vintage's MWVC ones: Ceramics but with a very nice edge for soloing, particularly the bridge pickup. The neck pickup is muddier, but also acceptable.
I understand that where you feel the higher price in the Vintage is mainly in the electronics (more nuances when reducing volume and tone), the nice graphite nut and the tuners, which are Wilkinson quality. The neck is very nice in both guitars but finish is normally better in the Vintage (less sharp frets). Resale value for the Vintage is also higher.
All in all I think the Harley Benton SC450 Vintage Plus is a better deal (in fact, the quality is almost incredible for the price) than the V100, which is overall a similarly great, slightly better guitar, but at double the price.
However, I am not sure of whether the 2018 SC450 will hold the same value, with a blackwood fingerboard (question mark) and Roswell LAF pickups. Particularly, the Roswell LAF pickups sound good, but even though they are Alnico 5 they might not be as creamy as that great classic sound of the stock ceramic 2017 Wilkinsons.
What do you think?
Another point of comparison could be SC550 vs V100 or Cort CR250. The SC550 has nice roseacer, a bone nut, and maybe better pots than the 450, putting it exactly in the same league as the V100. Sometimes I feel I maybe should have bought the 550 instead of the 450 Plus, but overall I am extremely happy with it, one of the more satisfying guitars I have ever bought at any price level.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 18, 2018 10:40:19 GMT
Guitars do not hold value unless you buy them used. It remains a decision on how to spend money, knowing that a good 40% of the new price is gone.
Details don't seem to make any difference on sales price in the low end of the 2nd hand market. It's a harsh area. You can even sell a guitar with a case and see it go for the same price as one without. If you bought a Harley Benton you intend to sell one day, better keep the original packaging including the Thomann box and padding. These things don't sell to discerning buyers who took time to find out that older models had different attributes and even less to know if they were better or worse. The target group here is bargain hunters.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 10:56:24 GMT
My experience with the Blackwood fretboard is TERRIBLE! The fretboard shrenk so much the frets were sticking out at the ends and some frets even popped out a bit creating lots of buzz! Stay away from it and lets make HB realise they MUST stop with that material like NOW! Ovankol is something already in use and even Roseacer seems like a better deal!
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Post by DerAlex on Jun 18, 2018 11:05:18 GMT
I sold the 450plus because it had much cheaper hardware and the bridge was aligned in a strange way on the posts (cheap alloy I presume).
I kept my SC550 which in my humble but accurate opinion is the much better deal (unless you want to upgrade everything yourself and enjoy doing so).
The SC550 is an incredible cost-value-monster and if I had to chose again I would always by this.
From what I heard it is of the same quality than the Vintage just 100 EUR cheaper.
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Post by Banana on Jun 18, 2018 11:08:47 GMT
My experience with the Blackwood fretboard is TERRIBLE! The fretboard shrenk so much the frets were sticking out at the ends and some frets even popped out a bit creating lots of buzz! Stay away from it and lets make HB realise they MUST stop with that material like NOW! Ovankol is something already in use and even Roseacer seems like a better deal! Wouldn't you agree that it might have been just a lemon fretboard? Haven't seen anyone else that had issues with their blackwood ( ) and HB isn't the only company that uses it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 15:18:58 GMT
There are TWO different Blackwoods! One that is a Blackwood from some kind of hardwood and then this Pine from Thomann! Thomann describes it as Pine in the describtion of Blackwood! It is too soft to be a good material for fretboards! My experience is mine of course and I stick ot it! NO MORE such Pine based Blackwood stuff for me FULL STOP!!! My favorite choice is now old school Maple fretboard! Then maybe the Roseacer but even that one seems soft under my finger nails! Ovangkol is fine though I have it on the CLD 41S ! They should just change the Blackwood butter like material to Ovangkol as they already did on the ST-70BP strat and the TE-70 RW (I believe)
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Post by Banana on Jun 19, 2018 10:20:43 GMT
There are TWO different Blackwoods! One that is a Blackwood from some kind of hardwood and then this Pine from Thomann! Thomann describes it as Pine in the describtion of Blackwood! It is too soft to be a good material for fretboards! My experience is mine of course and I stick ot it! NO MORE such Pine based Blackwood stuff for me FULL STOP!!! My favorite choice is now old school Maple fretboard! Then maybe the Roseacer but even that one seems soft under my finger nails! Ovangkol is fine though I have it on the CLD 41S ! They should just change the Blackwood butter like material to Ovangkol as they already did on the ST-70BP strat and the TE-70 RW (I believe) Not quite. There's the exotic wood called blackwood and there is man made wood called blackwood (pretty much the same as roseacer). Man made blackwood indeed is made out of pine, however, it is treated with some dark magic, which makes the wood change colour and its attributes. Just google Blackwood Tek for more info blackwoodtek.com/www.madinter.com/blackwood-tek.html?___from_store=fr&___store=en
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Jun 19, 2018 19:20:15 GMT
Not quite. There's the exotic wood called blackwood and there is man made wood called blackwood (pretty much the same as roseacer). Man made blackwood indeed is made out of pine, however, it is treated with some dark magic, which makes the wood change colour and its attributes. Just google Blackwood Tek for more info www.madinter.com/blackwood-tek.html?___from_store=fr&___store=en"We take plantation grown softwoods, the World already has enough of it, subject it to chemical modification and arrive at unlimited supply of high quality hardwood that is: strong, hard, durable, attractive and suitable for huge range of end uses". And then the frets fall out.
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34 posts
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Post by mitchmacblues on Jun 20, 2018 20:39:31 GMT
Many thanks for your replies.
I take it that most people think the SC550 is the real contender with the Vintages here. On paper the SC550 had even better Wilkinson pickups than the Vintage V100s, maybe the discontinuation of the Wilkinsons collaboration with Harley Benton had to do with the threat of competition to one of its brands.
Are the electronics on the SC550 really superior to the SC450, or just the pickups and the nut? The SC450 pots are OK for the price of the guitar, but clearly improvable. The nut is also decent with the pencil graphite trick, but also improvable.
But I have also heard some people say that they change the SC550 electronics right away.
And are the 2018 Roswell LAFs on par with the Wilkinsons that the V100 feature? (I understand that the V100 feature Chinese Wilkinson ceramics, but very nice sounding). That is a key point of comparison for me.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 21, 2018 2:29:00 GMT
I see coil split advertised for the SC-450 but not for the SC-550 on the Thomann site. And after checking Youtube, it really is that way, which would be a clear decision for me but the SC-550 has the higher quality. I don't think there are videos showing the new Roswell on the SC-550 yet.
Oh, and I really don't like that Rhythm/Treble sticker around the switch selector of the SC-550 but I see it is on the SC-450 too on the Thomann site. This guy must have removed it on his guitar.
I wonder how much difference the nut really makes. I heard someone say plastic nuts are only an issue when badly cut, implying cutting them is somehow more delicate, which ought not to be a difficulty any more with automatised processes. He then went on to say that the plastic nut of the Harley Benton he was looking at was just fine and therefore did not need replacing.
Here is the video in question, set to start at that very point:
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 21, 2018 2:35:51 GMT
The SC-550 comes in two versions with different pick-ups too. The SC-550 Faded Tobacco Flame has covered "Roswell LAF AlNiCo-5 Humbucker". The SC-550 Paradise Amber Flame has "Roswell HAF AlNiCo-5 Zebra Humbucker". Does anyone know the difference between "Loud as F" and "Hot as F" pick-ups?
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 21, 2018 6:33:16 GMT
Got it. More output and more treble in the HAF variety, less middle at the bridge: Now I wonder if the SC-450 Plus and the SC-550 Faded Tobacco have different pick-ups. Thomann only adds "vintage style" to the SC-450 Plus but the Roswell website does not list such a type. I would assume they are the same.
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Post by DerAlex on Jun 22, 2018 13:15:56 GMT
I don´t believe the specs of that comparison table.
I remember my bridge pickup (Wilkinson) of my SC-550 to be around 11k which was too hot for my liking and I swapped the electronics and the humbuckers.
I guess if they are High output humbuckers they will have more than 8.4k (and most likely ceramic magnets).
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Jun 22, 2018 13:47:09 GMT
I don't think the pick-ups of the SC-550 in either version were ever advertised as "high output" anywhere, unless we count my humble attempt at interpretation of the acronyms as such
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Post by DerAlex on Jun 23, 2018 9:58:16 GMT
well, the SC550 in Paradise Flame actually had always the hotter Wilkinson‘s than the Tobacco one. That was also clearly documented in the specs.
I didn‘t check the new models but I am quite optimistic that the GnR 550 still has hotter pickups.
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