rtm
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
|
Post by rtm on Jun 23, 2018 7:26:34 GMT
Harley Benton's got both the Jazzmaster and the Mustang on offer, but the big brother of the offset guitar family is conspicuously missing. The Jaguar. Do you think this is outside of the scope of what HB can pull off with their Vietnam/ China/ Indonesia factories? Maybe Roswell/ Wilkinson don't have any matching hardware for that kind of guitar?
Just a random thought I had. I already have a Jaguar and am happy with the one I have, of course. But it would warm my heart to know beginning guitarists had access to a cheap one from HB. (NO SALAMI PICKGUARDS!)
|
|
|
Post by DerAlex on Jun 23, 2018 10:01:58 GMT
I think the numbers are not really interesting.
It is a very special sound IMHO and also the JM similar models are coming with P90‘s and different bridges.
HB is always about volume so 100 guitars have to sell quickly even as a test run.
And the Squier offerings are really good quality.
I have the red Squier JM and for 320€ it is a fantastic guitar. HB has to be much cheaper so maybe it doesn‘t make sense economically.
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 23, 2018 14:45:43 GMT
I'm looking at those now and I quite like the Jazzmaster and Jaguar Squiers. If I had to indulge in one of those, I'd want the full funny Jazzmaster with silly switching and vibrato. The Harley Benton JA-60 looks good but really tame in comparison, nowhere as "interesting". I understand it cannot be that complex for the price and to someone who would want to try P90s without duplicating an SC or a CST, it has its charm. It's just not as much of acopy as other HB's. But for looks, I'd want this one:
|
|
rtm
Harley Benton Club Junior Member
|
Post by rtm on Jun 23, 2018 16:26:26 GMT
I think the numbers are not really interesting. It is a very special sound IMHO and also the JM similar models are coming with P90‘s and different bridges. HB is always about volume so 100 guitars have to sell quickly even as a test run. And the Squier offerings are really good quality. I have the red Squier JM and for 320€ it is a fantastic guitar. HB has to be much cheaper so maybe it doesn‘t make sense economically. True, the Squier Vintage Modified line is epic, heck the Squier VM Jaguars are better Jaguars than many Fender branded ones, or at least more authentic. I think the cheapest Fender that does Jaguar justice is €1050.
As for the JMs, I haven't tried them but usually I stay away from P90s on cheap guitars as they tend to be noisy, and I primarily use my guitars for recording. Maybe you have some insight on the Squier JM?
|
|
3,968 posts
|
Post by salteedog on Jun 23, 2018 17:39:07 GMT
Offsets - especially Jaguars have a relatively small market - hence no left handed options by Fender other than the €1500 Cobain Jag.
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 23, 2018 19:10:14 GMT
When Fender put out the Jazzmaster, it was said they had been designed to be more comfortable when played sitting. I never really saw why so I decided to find out. I put common guitar shapes next to one another, made sure they were at scale and shifted them to align the lower curve of the body, aligning the point at which they rest on the leg: We can see that the Les Paul or PRS shapes are very far on the picking side, with body weight pulling them down through imbalance while the Jazzmaster and subsequent Jaguar or Mustang are repositioned to the fretting side, with body mass better centered on the leg. The picking hand is also more likely to be in between pick-ups while it is over the neck pick-up with the others (at least it is right there when I play a Strat') and even over the last frets with the PRS. This re-positioning brings the nut further from the body, making fretting the lowest notes a more distant affair. I'm still unconvinced about the PRS shape being all that comfortable after seeing this. I expect it to be as problematic as a Les Paul. Maybe I will get a Jazzmaster after all. I just needed an excuse
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 23, 2018 19:43:54 GMT
And just in case anyone wondered how the Harley Benton versions compare to all this (because I did), here they are left and right of the Squier "originals": The Harley Benton JA-60 appears to be significantly smaller. I see the pictures are tilted but it also looks shorter.
|
|
3,968 posts
|
Post by salteedog on Jun 23, 2018 19:46:24 GMT
Thats an interesting visual. It would extra interesting to see the SG shape as in my experience that is the most extreme shape - with the body curve being around the same position as it is on the jazzmaster (aligned with the bridge pickup) but with less body mass behind it (accentuated by the fact that the body is comparably thin). No shape has as much neck dive as an SG.
As it is, with guitars the geometry is not the only information required to identify the true center of gravity given that body and neck material varies as does the body construction (how much of it is 'hollowed out'.)
But that said, I also understand that balance is only one factor for consideration with regard to 'comfort'. My SG shape is actually one of my favourite guitars to play seated - the neck dive isn't really a problem when sitting even without a strap - (standing is a different matter); I like the position of the jack socket and the natural positioning of my fretting hand somewhere near the 5th fret with great access to the upper frets and I like the thinness of the body too. It kind of feels like the guitar is all neck...
Anyway it's a personal opinion ...excepting the mustang I have all the shapes displayed in your diagram. The only guitars I'm not fond of playing seated are the Les Paul shape - which is a bit body heavy and my HB-35 semi-hollow (just too big).
|
|
3,968 posts
|
Post by salteedog on Jun 23, 2018 19:56:06 GMT
And just in case anyone wondered how the Harley Benton versions compare to all this (because I did), here they are left and right of the Squier "originals": The Harley Benton JA-60 appears to be significantly smaller. I see the pictures are tilted but it also looks shorter. Yes the JA-60 body is smaller - someone somewhere posted a diagram of the body shape blueprints superimposed on each other. I must see if I can find the link.
|
|
1,773 posts
|
Post by MartinB on Jun 23, 2018 22:27:47 GMT
I think that my Sterling St. Vincent might be more comfortable than my old JMs were. It’s at least equal.
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 24, 2018 2:54:24 GMT
I did some magic with the SG. It is indeed re-balanced to the fretting side and equivalent to a Jaguar. These guys knew what they were doing, only not that the "seated jazz guitarist" was not going to be a market determining factor. All of a sudden, everyone wanted to be Jimi Hendrix instead but all they could afford were old 2nd hand Les Pauls Or Danelectros… I would best define comfort as the absence of discomfort and chambering can easily re-position the centre of gravity of a guitar where it belongs. It wasn't the case with my SC-Custom. I kept feeling I had to catch it back which made using it unpleasant unless I was sitting on a couch. One further source of discomfort was the scale being pulled back to the picking side in comparison to what I learned with. I kept feeling the guitar was too short.
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 24, 2018 7:34:37 GMT
I just got to watch this demo of the Squier Jazzmaster and I know I'm not buying it unless I find a counter-example. That "twang" is just impossible and I know I would only use the "rhythm" circuit, which is a bit of a waste. Yes, I know there is a tone knob. Need to hear it in action before trust is restored. What I heard of the Harley Benton was much more to my taste and maybe that's the reason why they do not go for a better replica of the originals. They make them all for me Maybe no one likes the originals after all…
|
|
|
3,457 posts
|
Post by LeoThunder on Jun 24, 2018 9:47:58 GMT
Oh, this looks nice! And it's one more puzzling version of that shape. Well done
|
|