Mosky Silver Horse (klon clone)

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I do believe that modeling has come a long way in emulating the characteristics of various amp's circuits. Whether they can then model the sound of certain speakers effectively and then play that through a full range full response (FRFR) speaker I have no idea. Perhaps that concept is moot if you are going straight into a DAW afterwards.

I've never enjoyed going direct into a computer but that may be because I find monitoring and playing that way a chore to set up and hate playing with headphones on. Even getting the computer to recognise an amp is usually a faff in itself and I've completely lost the urge to play whatever it was I had just come up with by the time I have sworn at the computer a few times and switched off and on again and open and closed and reopened and closed some software. Probably on my shoestring budget I'd never get a happy setup trying to do things that way.

It's good to hear that you ARE getting that breakup in your hybrid's preamp blindwilly3fingers . At home levels I wonder how little you are missing from having a sold state power section anyway? Even if they were tubes, at low levels they wouldn't be adding OD even if they were EL84s.

I think a lot of the charm of a valve amp in a room may be how it feels rather than how it records. And what that feeling does to your playing. The way the crunch, now that I can finally get some, also compresses the volume so that playing harder doesn't mean playing louder. I've never been impressed with a compressor's ability to do that. Then again I've only tried Boss products to do it.

I probably can't tell in the listening whether tubes or modelling or just solid state has been used though. I certainly wouldn't ever stake my life on being able to do so. I wonder if I could accept a challenge to be able to tell them apart if I was allowed to  play them. I feel nervous now that I may not! I do know that the Katana's speaker and general characteristics as it comes out of the factory doesn't seem to feel big and tubey. I wonder though if I would think it was if I was told it was?  I feel I might think it was a not very impressive tube amp with a bad speaker in it.

I have tried using a valve filled Blackstar HT Dual as a clean boost and it was no great shakes. I have tried using a valve filled Behringer MIC200 mic preamp in the same way (in fact I bought it to see if it could behave as a sort of valve preamp to my Fender Champ SE25) and, again, no. But this was again me expecting the valve preamp to do all the work. What I haven't tried, and this may be a fix for the Katana and some other solid state amps, is using the Blackstar HT Dual or the Behringer MIC200 with the Kokko pedal into THEM. Getting that tubey breakup before it even gets into the Katana's circuit. Hmm.

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Oh, one thing I have found is useful when recording any instrument or even vocals into a DAW on a computer, is to actually set everything up so that it IS working and then go and make a cup of tea and have a little think and relax. Give it ten. Then, as long as the computer hasn't decided to go to sleep through lack of use, I find I am in a much more musical mood and not a techie one, so that recording is no different than pressing a record button on an old tape recorder. Less intimidating, less adversarial, lower adrenaline levels and better zen!

[blindwilly3fingers]

@defjef it really is the inexhaustible quest for the cosmic tone! 😱 I wonder sometimes are we searching for something that really is all in our minds?

I remember when I purchased the line6 modeller I used to own, they guy in the shop gave me demo and I was "yeah that sounds good". At the sane time a guy was playing thorough a Fender Vapourizer not only did it sound good it looked outrageously good. It was 3 times the cost but I was tempted but knew it was too big and too loud. I bought the line6 which with hindsight was all wrong but its a process we have to go through to learn. Several times I have wished I got the vapourizer but would have had the same problem salteedog had.

Personally I like the Klon sounding/type od pedals but i do stack ods and use a boost. We all have our own taste and that probably changes from time to time.

As we have said in numerous posts/threads lots of things influence the tone we get. I enjoy trying different things in different ways it all adds to the fun and learning process.

Will we ever fully understand it all or be fully satisfied with the tone we get? Probably not, there will always be something new or better 😛

What I did find interesting was the guy from JHS saying "remember all the transistors,diodes,caps etc etc, were not designed for guitar! But possibly medical or military machines etc" they are just adapted for guitar purposes.

Who invented od/distortion? We have all heard the variations was it?

Glen Snotty (mistake on Marty Robbins song fuzz sounding)?

Link Wray poking a pencil thru the speaker?

Dave Davis slashing the speaker?

Supposedly Gibson/Maestro marketed the first fuzz pedal.
Coloursound/Vox turned it into the tonebender etc etc.

And to think guitar amplification was originally designed so the horn section didn't drown it out? Which leads back to tubes!

Sorry for the waffling 😷

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I don't think it's in my mind blindwilly3fingers because I instantly know when I like something. I hear it and it happens. I don't have to work at it. In fact I hate having to work towards getting something that is in my head. I don't have the tech savvy or the meters to understand all those components to definitely and without fail get me there.

I did think this morning that I wished I could build a sound I wanted on a synth. To know where to start to build a sound that was in my head. To say, right I want something that fills the job of a viola in an orchestra, a dry, woody sound with sustain and vibrato but with a degree of rasp, maybe even some detuned element. But I don't know how that's done. So, when I sit with my keyboard player and I'm spouting on about my 'vision' of ice floes grinding past each other, of howling winds and eerie moans, I can't tell him how to get there and he can't interpret my description. So we poke various sounds until something appeals to me and we tweak that instead. I find it HUGELY dissatisfying really, and one of the biggest reasons that I dislike composing with electronica. I can't be doing with all that blind poking that seems to go on for hours in the search for something a bit right.

I do wonder if a LOT of it is in the speaker with this Katana though. I just tried the MIC200 with the Kokko Boost into it and then into the Katana and it was worse! Thinner and fizzy no matter what I did with all three device's eq controls. In fact the Katana's own booster sounded better really. Clearer. So that was a non-starter.

But the fact remains, and it's a hugely frustrating one that made me down my guitar, that the Katana just sounds thin and undetailed. I really cannot make that speaker sound like anything other than a small to medium sized dog barking. There's something nasal about it that the easily accessible controls cannot eliminate. Yes there are supposed to be countless options to eq it in the software and sometimes, just sometimes, I can be bothered to play with that. But it's never once made me go 'wow'.

So it's hugely unfair to blame the software and circuit technicians if, no matter how genius their modelling is, they are being asked to push it through a speaker, or maybe a cabinet, that is just not serving it well.

I'm sure my Bugera can have a better speaker but I'm not about to drop a quarter of a grand on a Jensen Blackbird any time soon. I could very well wonder why I had not done so sooner were I ever to do it but, for now, that Bugera V22 pleases me whenever I switch it on and play through it. The Katana just never does. And even swapping the Bugera's speaker into it has not given it the balls it lacks. Something's awry but I cannot fathom what it is. Maybe THAT amp needs a Blue Bird...or would that just lay its naked shortcomings out for all to hear?

[blindwilly3fingers]

I can't comment on the Katana really as I have no physical experience of it. But I will say most boss stuff is usually better than the norm. I see the katana get both good and bad reviews, I do wonder if the head version with a cab may be the answer but I can only surmise.

I do however wonder if its a case more is less? In so much that things are cancelling each other out on some settings. Again this is only me surmising.
For me there can be too many options on modelling amps this could be down to me not knowing how to really set it up optimally.

I know from messing with pedals less is quite often more and adding too much to the brew spoils it.

I do agree with the speaker being possibly the most important factor. But then we are starting a whole new episode. 🤔

[salteedog]

I still have the Katana and it's my most used amp just for sheer convenience. But, I also still have the cash from my sale of the Vaporizer and it's burning a new amp sized hole hole in my pocket. I agree there's a different feel to tube overdrive - my sense was that there is more detail insofar as not all frequencies are distorted equally. Maybe that's what some people think of as 'three dimensional' sound. I reckon I'll buy one of those HB tube amps. The question is the 5 watt or the 15 watt. I know the 15 watt is too loud but I'm a sucker for a reverb tank and a 12inch speaker.

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I've never had a Boss pedal that I love. I have a Dynamic Wah that I really am not keen on, a Compressor that's okayish but needed modifying to get there, the Katana that disappoints and an Me70 multifx that gets by. I'd call all of the stuff reliable and 'jobbing'. They do nothing badly but they do nothing outstandingly either. They simply do. But I could never recommend any of them to wow someone. It's the one reason I keep holding off getting one of their graphic equalizers. I fear I'll end up saying, 'it's ...okay...'

They absolutely feel like middle ground. There prices reflect that, neither cheap nor expensive. In a way good value but it's a bit like recommending M & S for clothes. They'll do.

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There's no doubting the Katana's convenience salteedog . It's set ready to use right by my kitchen to play on whilst waiting for the toast to pop up. The beans are about the same distance away from the toaster...

I reckon I'd go for the 5 watt HB amp just for something a bit different and useful for recording. Sometimes a 12" speaker and a mid powered amp is all too much for that.

[blindwilly3fingers]

Those are exactly the same thoughts I am having regards the new HB tube amps salteedog. I keep thinking order the 5watt but the little devil on my shoulder is saying what if it's not powerful/loud enough and the 15watt is better? 3 times I've nearly put a pre order in!

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Would it be your first full tube amp blindwilly3fingers? I suspect the 15 watt would be the most versatile for you.

[blindwilly3fingers]

Yes @defjef it would be, my only worry is the 15watt would be too loud. As it has no master volume would I be better off with the 5watt?

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I think the gain, volume and attenuator controls on the Tube15 would be sufficient blindwilly3fingers.

[blindwilly3fingers]

Cheers @defjef I'll have to make my mind up, easier said than done lol 🤔

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I know what you mean but the return policy is strong. The resale is assured and you can't lose much if you did decide to sell it later on. I know the 5 watter, if it's any good at all, will be good at one thing only and do that very well but is a bit more niche.

[blindwilly3fingers]

Well I keep thinking all a want is a single channel clean tube amp as a pedal platform @defjef..

Now is that the way to go? Or is it a one trick pony? I look at the 8" speaker and wonder will it really be any better than my Bugera BC 15? Obviously it's only 5 watt but has a tube in the power amp.

I can see what your saying regarding the 15watt, more tubes, reverb tank bigger speaker.