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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 18:09:18 GMT
Yes I've seen that one too bw3f. I'm very happy with my boost pedal setup now. It's what I was always looking to do. How about you? Totally happy now with that Klon?
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Mar 25, 2020 19:32:12 GMT
Yeah Im happy with the klon but I mostly run it with the boost on aswell. I'm basically running the boost as always on, then adding the klon or other flavours. 🙄
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 13:36:41 GMT
What baffled me a bit with the video was that he was trying to show the boosters components clipping to distortion whilst NOT overdriving the amp. Unless I misunderstood him. That's the opposite to how I use my booster, keeping it clean to overdrive and crunch the amp's preamp tubes.
No idea which type of circuit my Kokko Boost has but maybe it's less critical since I am not attempting to clip op amps, mosfets, jfets or anything else. Made me grateful for my treb and bass knobs though.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Mar 26, 2020 15:27:09 GMT
The mojo, dojo, mofo confuses me 🤔, I took the his explanation of boost as a clean gain or a flavoured boost gain with a klon or tube screamer, as confirmation I was on the right track. I was interested on his suggestion a flat EQ pedal with the level up was more a boost in vol than gain?
For me I just want my boost to to add clean gain, I set the tone with the other effects/pedals. I can't be doing with then adding more EQ options or even an EQ pedal. I can see there are those that do and those that need to for mixing recording.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 14:57:33 GMT
I've been reading a little more about the Klon today after spending yesterday in a recording studio with a guitarist who had been recommended the EHX Soul Food Klon clone by no less than Dave Gregory of XTC. He had tried to say that it didn't have a gain knob but a clean boost that mixed in overdrive using a blend knob. That wasn't quite my memory of the Klon and certainly isn't how the Soul Food's knob's are labeled either - nor the Silver Horse for that matter - unless you look at the BASS Soul Food that DOES have a mix or blend knob. So I wanted to find out more. It seems that on the Klon and it's nearest sibling the KTR have a 'Drive' knob that is double gang, so as you turn it up it increases the clean headroom (the clean boost I suppose you could call it) whilst also increasing the clipping. The end result should be something like playing through two amps, one clean, the other dirty, and THIS is what is meant by a transparent overdrive. That's the way I read it anyway. So now I just wonder if the Soul Food or Silver Horse do it that way. I'm expecting NOT. I imagine they are trying to simulate that effect some other way. The Soul Food sounded fantastic in the studio though no matter how it does it. The fact that it was going into TWO Sessionette amps - one a twin - probably didn't make matters worse either! A two amp simulating pedal into two amps and three speakers...wow! If the Silver Horse sounds as good I want one.  Here's a good in depth explanation that's better than mine from the inventor himself, Bill Finnegan. |
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 28, 2020 20:31:25 GMT
My understanding @defjef is the klon circuit is not an overly complex circuit. I think from what I read the gloop/silicone blob had everyone thinking it was a mystical secret for a few years. We spoke earlier in the thread about the klon being hard not soft clipped but diodes used to make it sound soft clipped.
Now I've not taken the back off my silver horse so I can't be sure it is a clone of the klon circuit. Or a simulation of some sort as you suggest. To me a clone is a copy of the original? I suspect smaller printed ciruit boards and cheaper components are used but the clones are basically the same ciruit albeit some modified with the voice switch for example, not a simulation of the original. I may be wrong but the klon was designed in the late 80s so I can't see it being that hard to replicate. 🥴
The original klon as you know was nigh on the size of a brick. We get everything in mini now with the advances in printed ciruit boards. 🤔 If it's a simulation would it be digital? 🤕
I bought the silver horse to try out the klon type od/boost whatever you want to call it. Undoubtedly it will have cheaper components than the soul food or other clones. I was thinking of getting a better klon clone mamely either the soul food £80 or the Joyo Taurean £52
But do I really need it? I watched the demos and comparisons of loads of klon clones before I dipped my toe into the klon clone world. 😱 There are more expensive clones but not really going to make me a better player are they? Apparently the caline pegasus is a very good clone but at £35 are the components going to be much better than the Mosky? Caline also do a mini sized clone I think is called the minotaur?
If you want to come over to the dark side @defjef it's basically how much you want to shell out? The Mosky does a good impersonation at £20 but the sky is the limit up to a few grand for the real thing. 😁
By the way I'm only thinking of upgrading the Mosky because the Mrs is driving me nuts, asking me what I want for my birthday at the end of the end of the month and I can't think of anything! 🙄
Ammendment:
The caline mini clone is called medusa not minotaur.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 28, 2020 21:01:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 22:31:56 GMT
Seems to say it is a very complex circuit. Thanks bw3f, I'll take a read.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 28, 2020 22:56:09 GMT
Yeah it is a complex circuit @defjef, my bad I should have said not complex to copy/clone. Along with the tube screamer I would think its one of the most copied od's.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 23:26:07 GMT
This modding of the Soul Food article from that same website gives a little insight into how much of a clone the Soul Food (and possibly the Silver Horse) actually IS. I wonder if those diodes are on the Silver Horse? There's not much room...
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 28, 2020 23:34:52 GMT
Out of interest @defjef have you tried or heard a timmy or timmy clone? That might be more what your looking for, it possibly has more tone shaping option than a klon clone. The timmy has a bass knob as well as treble and a cut option (3 positions) some clones don't have the cut switch.
A mate of mine has an MXR timmy and loves it, he likes being able to cut the bass if he wants to. I think it's based on a tube screamer but doesn't have the mid hump. I was impressed by it and before I got the klon clone it was a toss up between the two. Again caline do a timmy clone for about £24.
Just a thought as I know you like to be able to alter the tone and cut some of the bass. 😉
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 28, 2020 23:42:33 GMT
I remember reading somewhere Finnigan saying he used Russian made diodes and they varied. He was in effect saying no two centaurs sounded exactly the same. The apparently worked the same with very minimal differences. This apparently also applies to the clones.
To me all it does is adds to the myth and make klons and the majority of clones more expensive. Just my opinion 😉
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 29, 2020 0:05:46 GMT
This modding of the Soul Food article from that same website gives a little insight into how much of a clone the Soul Food (and possibly the Silver Horse) actually IS. I wonder if those diodes are on the Silver Horse? There's not much room... Having now read this article fully there seems little point in the mod? They guy says there is minimal difference using either diode and he would stick with the soul food as stock. I do wonder if any two pedals are exactly the same. Pots, caps have tolerances I would suspect resistors, diodes etc do as well? Unless you tested every component and had no tolerances I can't see how you get two exactly the same? Now I'm not saying you could easily tell the difference but they must be there. Even if miniscule? 🤕 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 8:29:24 GMT
Yes I liked the fact that that guy suggested not bothering with the mod. I like the sound of Bill Finnegan too.
I found it reassuring that the Soul Food did seem to be attempting, within reason, to get to where the Klon gets using pretty similar methods rather than totally different ones and suggests that maybe the Silver Horse does too. Plus the Silver Horse has that extra switch for soft and hard clipping. It sounds pretty flexible for such a cheap little pedal and also not too fussy about what kind of signal it is receiving be it humbuckers or single coils.
The Soul Food sounded really fine with a strat through it at the weekend into those two solid state Sessionettes. Mind you I really liked the Sessionette last time I played one. First solid state that felt tubey on breakup. There's something special about the gain stages in both the Sessionette and the Klon approach that is a bit different to the norm. It's something I like.
Not tried a Timmy @bindwilly3fingers but didn't really intend to go down an overdrive rabbit hole either. I may take a look at that Timmy clone though....
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Sept 29, 2020 9:49:15 GMT
The OD rabbit hole is bit of an understatement. 😂 I remember the guy from JHS saying there isn't a pedal that can't be cloned/copied in one of his videos. With the cheaper clones your obviously going to get cheaper components, now whether they are inferior sound wise I can only guess? Will they last durability or long lasting wise I suspect not? That's not saying the cheap stuff isn't well built/constructed. As you know most of the components used in guitar gear were of exmilitary origin in the past. A lot of that stuff is no longer available and new "improved" versions are used. If your a vintage freak modern stuff is crap, if your into modern gear it's vice versa. Luckily I'm not one or the other, if it sounds good it'll do for me. 🙄 You know well @defjef all Od's are not equal and they are basically Marmite you love or hate them. 😉 Getting back to klon clones I would say the silver horse is entry level to the klon type sound. It gets you in the ball park there are probably better options. As I said I'm contemplating getting a more expensive klon clone but I may well be wasting money? The EH & Joyo clones are normally pretty bomb proof durability wise but will they sound much better? Probably not? 🤕 I suggested the timmy clone purely because it has the bass control. I know you've been working on a bass cut mod and just thought it may be a better option for you? Obviously it's not a klon clone so maybe not? 🥴 I know there's a lot of myth and bs surrounding the klon and honestly we are back to Marmite. I like the klon sound and it really comes into its own when you stack it with another drive. It can be quite a surprise that a drive your not that keen on becomes very good. That's my finding with the klon clone you may find it different. I'm no expert and didn't want to waste money on OD's but a klon clone will be on my board permanently. It's versatility does it for me, I know there may be other OD's out there that are possibly better but I'm not searching. 😜 The future is transparent or is it opaque?  |
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