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Post by hallon on Aug 7, 2019 10:51:54 GMT
Hi Did a sound test demo with the Harley Benton HB 35 and the Gibson es 335 side by side, quite a big difference in price Is it worth it?
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 7, 2019 15:07:18 GMT
Can't say I hear much difference. I suppose we'd get more clarity with the HB-35 Plus.
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Post by hallon on Aug 7, 2019 19:06:25 GMT
But besides the price difference (partly justified) have you considered the construction grade, the finishing and not least the sound, sustain etc? It would probably be more logical to compare the Hb-35 with an epiphone dot or better a 335 pro ( with hb 35 plus) and only after try both make right choice! Many tend to buy a very cheap instrument, then they change tuners, pickups and wires, but the result is not always guaranteed, so perhaps it is better to try a tool for yourself and not trust the tests too much on the web where the author, his sponsorship, counts a lot. and the treatment that is applied to the sound. Yeah, construction is of course way better on the Gibson. Also how it feels to play. That being said, the Harley Benton is not bad at all, considering the price. Yes, always check it out for yourself before buying!
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Post by hallon on Aug 7, 2019 19:13:20 GMT
Can't say I hear much difference. I suppose we'd get more clarity with the HB-35 Plus. Yes, is it so that a lot of the tone is also in the fingers, not only in the equipment? I think a combination. Yes, that will be interesting to hear,
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 8, 2019 1:44:36 GMT
Yeah, construction is of course way better on the Gibson. Also how it feels to play. I must always wonder how much of that is in the skills put into the set-up. Sure, some blunders cannot be easily fixed, if at all. A warped neck, a bad angle, a wrongly positioned bridge are just bad luck but I see so many "reviewers" and players depend on the state out of the box I can no longer take their opinions seriously. Yes, I understand people who want to make a quick view catcher on YouTube don't bother spending time on the stuff they discuss. They unbox it at length, because some apparently like to watch that nonsense, then make a few random comments on the fret edges or how cheap the hardware looks and play some uninteresting noodling somewhere between crunch and fuzz. Some of them even comment on the guitar coming almost in tune… I was surprised to see that a Mike Bradley, who's been playing for over two decades, had to be shown how to clean the fret buzz off his new expensive Fender. No wonder we get those silly, ecstatic stories about the one guitar that "played like a dream" in the shop and had to be bought on the spot. Sometimes it even plays "like buttah". I don't want to know what else these people do with butter. I never played with it. I know my dirt cheap B-400 FL became a lot easier to play after I shimmed the neck and cut the nut to allow comfortable action. It was certainly not a good guitar out of the box but it took a screwdriver, a pair of scissors, a discarded envelope to make shims out of thick paper, a cheap set of files and some patience for the filing to make it nice.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 8, 2019 5:32:33 GMT
It's a point worth really taking on board that the tone is in the fingers. The way you personally play will have everything to do with which equipment works best for you and with what setup. I'm still searching for that video showing the finger technique that makes a Les Paul sound like a Strat'. Anyone got a link?
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Post by hallon on Aug 8, 2019 6:52:08 GMT
Yeah, construction is of course way better on the Gibson. Also how it feels to play. I must always wonder how much of that is in the skills put into the set-up. Sure, some blunders cannot be easily fixed, if at all. A warped neck, a bad angle, a wrongly positioned bridge are just bad luck but I see so many "reviewers" and players depend on the state out of the box I can no longer take their opinions seriously. Yes, I understand people who want to make a quick view catcher on YouTube don't bother spending time on the stuff they discuss. They unbox it at length, because some apparently like to watch that nonsense, then make a few random comments on the fret edges or how cheap the hardware looks and play some uninteresting noodling somewhere between crunch and fuzz. Some of them even comment on the guitar coming almost in tune… I was surprised to see that a Mike Bradley, who's been playing for over two decades, had to be shown how to clean the fret buzz off his new expensive Fender. No wonder we get those silly, ecstatic stories about the one guitar that "played like a dream" in the shop and had to be bought on the spot. Sometimes it even plays "like buttah". I don't want to know what else these people do with butter. I never played with it. I know my dirt cheap B-400 FL became a lot easier to play after I shimmed the neck and cut the nut to allow comfortable action. It was certainly not a good guitar out of the box but it took a screwdriver, a pair of scissors, a discarded envelope to make shims out of thick paper, a cheap set of files and some patience for the filing to make it nice. Playability (descent/good set up) at first impression definitely plays a part in how many people feel about an instrument. It is always a psychological, many times even a placebo aspect of it as well. About needing help with setting up the guitar, many guitar players are not technicians, myself included. So what seems like a basic set up to some players, appears to be difficult to some others. It is also a matter of interest, some people are not interested in learning the basics how to set up a guitar properly. It is the same thing as with cars and everything else. Just because you have been driving a car for 2 decades doesn't automatically mean you can even change the tires of your own car.
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Post by hallon on Aug 8, 2019 6:54:49 GMT
It's a point worth really taking on board that the tone is in the fingers. The way you personally play will have everything to do with which equipment works best for you and with what setup. One person's perfect is inevitably someone else's most annoying experience on the planet. Yes, tone is definitely to a large degree in the fingers, and hands. How hard you hit the strings, what kind of vibrato you play etc. And how you hear and then respond to a certain sound quality and what your fingers then make out of it. Yes this aspect is many times forgotten to take into consideration.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 8, 2019 7:34:51 GMT
Playability (descent/good set up) at first impression definitely plays a part in how many people feel about an instrument. It is always a psychological, many times even a placebo aspect of it as well. I used to think a cheap guitar would have hard limitations and it's true at first. When a nut is cut too high, the action cannot go down and playing open chords is a pain in the fingers. Fixing it requires a job similar to what a guitar player's girlfriend does on her fingernails. Hardly an advanced technique but she does it herself. If the guitar doesn't come ready to be played, it gets no real love. Life is tough for guitars too I no longer believe tales about the "feel" of expensive guitars. It's like saying that a Rolex "feels" better at your arm or that hours spent in the make up room make a better actress. These things only prepare the willingness to appreciate, a purely psychological process. When we want to love something, we are more likely to. Some need to pay to love more and rave about some 5000€ MacMull nonsense, others need a bargain and will treasure that wretched thing they found in a ditch and brought back to life. The thing is, I couldn't tell which one of these two guitars, the HB-35 or the Gibson, sounds better, at least not from that video. They sound the same in the mix and that jazz tone is softened beyond what I like and what could make a significant difference. And yes,I am listening with proper headphones (Sennheiser HD600).
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 8, 2019 7:49:59 GMT
It's a point worth really taking on board that the tone is in the fingers. The way you personally play will have everything to do with which equipment works best for you and with what setup. One person's perfect is inevitably someone else's most annoying experience on the planet. Yes, tone is definitely to a large degree in the fingers, and hands. How hard you hit the strings, what kind of vibrato you play etc. And how you hear and then respond to a certain sound quality and what your fingers then make out of it. Yes this aspect is many times forgotten to take into consideration. All these things are the same when comparing guitars, so they are not relevant here. And no, "tone" is definitely not so much in the fingers, at least not in its meaning related to the frequency picture of sound. This can be said of a violin where fingers and bow have a strong role in shaping the sound but the main reason why a player usually sounds similar with different electric guitars is that the fingers that turn the knobs go for a similar end result.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 8, 2019 8:28:52 GMT
Sounds like an e-bow would be the best choice for you LeoThunder . Of course, as we keep finding, the English language has many imprecise meanings for the same word. We seem to discuss it every day. I seem to remember looking into the word 'slip' back in my school days and there was an extraordinary number of meanings. And 'tone' is another one. It can be a quality of expression, a mood, a degree of fitness, a musical quality or voicing, a frequency pitch, or even two frets apart on the 'board. In music 'tone' tends to include the four elements of pitch, intensity, duration, and timbre. I'm not sure what terms physics would use for all of these. Perhaps frequency, volume, err...duration and err...again...don't know! Maybe 'a mixture of complex waves'? I feel 'tone' from a guitar is the sound quality it expresses and it doesn't do that by itself propped in its stand. I guess you could say it generates tone if you leave it feeding back and go for a beer but that's not the sort of tone I would go for. It could express something to someone doing that though. It's not an entirely redundant sound. There have, of course, been countless examples of a piece being played live and becoming almost synonymous with a particular instrument when, in the studio, the player used an entirely different guitar to get the effect. This seems to particularly occur with Les Pauls that get used for their humbucking power live but were not chosen in the studio when, for some reason, a telecaster was deemed the most suitable instrument. Stairway to Heaven and Motorcycle Emptiness being a couple of examples that come to mind. The player seems to manage to elicit the suitable feeling or emotion from both instruments and seemingly equally well. Yet, conversely, you will hear tribute acts who invest in all the artist correct gear and cannot seem to evoke any of the tone that the original artist had...unless they just leave it feeding back and go for a beer.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 8, 2019 8:42:21 GMT
About needing help with setting up the guitar, many guitar players are not technicians, myself included. So what seems like a basic set up to some players, appears to be difficult to some others. It is also a matter of interest, some people are not interested in learning the basics how to set up a guitar properly. It is the same thing as with cars and everything else. Just because you have been driving a car for 2 decades doesn't automatically mean you can even change the tires of your own car. That's right but I know it can be done and I won't go "wow, this is a great piano" just because it happens to be in tune after someone was paid to do the job. Someone who's been playing for years should know how much of a difference a set-up can make, even if he pays someone for it. I barely do anything myself on my car but I just had to change the battery (that's done by loosening 4 screws, then tightening them again after exchanging the heavy box - I feel silly paying someone for that). Of course, in the process of finding out it was dead and no longer charging up, I had to hear from two people "oh, yes, Jaguar, they're like that…". No, it was just a cheap old battery, they die like that, all of them after 5 years or so. It happened on all my BMWs too.
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