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Post by sportyspice on Nov 7, 2019 18:45:41 GMT
Hello, I'm a keyboard/piano player and have never played a guitar in my life. I hardly know anything about guitars, so please talk to me like I'm a complete dummy and don't throw all kind of jargon at me, as for me it's probably chinese.
I'd like to buy one of the ST model guitars, but there are so many and I have no idea which one to choose: ST-62 ST-62MN ST-62DLX ST-57DG ST-59HM ST-70 ST-70RW ST-90SA
It would be great if someone could give me some guidance regarding the differences between them, and help me make a choice. These guitars are not sold where I live, so I can't actually go and try them and have to order solely based on tips and specs.
I have understood that some of these (if not all?) have a big neck compared to Fender/Squier made strats. I have very small hands for a guy (but still bigger than a woman's), and was wondering if that might be a problem for me. I was also wondering how do they compare to Fender/Squier made strats in general. I can afford those if I really wanted to, and if my learning experience will be much better on those I'd go for one. The question is, will it make much difference for me as a beginner, or am I better off just getting a cheaper HB guitar for now?
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 7, 2019 20:08:07 GMT
Plenty of questions here. Let's try. The cheapest, 79€ ST-20 was left out of the list. It has a thinner neck, lesser pick-ups and generally lesser quality throughout but no one ever says it's terrible. It would do the job and could be upgraded or replaced later. It will need a set-up but so will all others, just like a piano needs a tuning. It's easily done yourself, I learned it from Youtube videos and if you know any other guitar players, you'll surely find one who does it. MN stands for maple neck. It's the same guitar with a yellow tinted neck. DLX stands for "de luxe", it's a little nicer with gold coloured parts and a metal plate underneath the strings. It's mostly for looks, really. 57 DG: this is a copy of David Gilmour's (Pink Floyd) famous black guitar. It has different pick-ups that sound a little more like older ones. No big deal. 59 HM: a copy of Hank Marvin's (The Shadows) red guitar with gold stuff on it and a different neck shape. Legendary for being the first Stratocaster brought to England in 1959. Same pick-ups as the 57DG model. ST-70 BP and RW: two fancy models with minimal differences. They have a better vibrato system ( the thing you wiggle to make cat noises). They also have fingerboards made of different woods: they look different. The Black Paisley has a bigger pick-up which produces a "thicker"(less high end), more powerful sound. Some of the ST-20 models also have one of these. ST-90SA: different look (natural wood), different wood (nothing too important) and yet another vibrato system. These vibrato systems are nothing that a beginner would care about. The normal one works just fine too. The thick neck on the ST-62 and others (I'm not sure for all of them), can be a blessing or a problem to those who got used to a certain type and got into the habit of wrapping their hand around it. If you learn the classical way (thumb behind), it is not an issue, regardless of hand size. I learned on a pretty thin neck and feel just fine with an ST-62. It felt strange at first, as do all changes, but had no consequences. The ST-62 was said to be as good as top level Squiers and far better than the cheap ones (which are still more expensive, at 125 or 200€). Your learning experience will be very much affected by the set-up your guitar receives. You basically need to get the strings low enough so they can be played easily without rattling on the frets, just like piano keys needs the appropriate resistance. The sounds you make will be mostly determined by the amplifier. Modern ones can make anything sound good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 20:58:24 GMT
This is just a general observation. A lot of learners can have difficulty with strat type guitars simply because of the tremolo (vibrato) system and tuning it. It's not a deal breaker as a little YouTubing will tell you what to do with that part to lock it down so it doesn't frustrate you. Just a little heads up. The tone controls are a bit quirky too (no tone for the bridge pickup for instance). Naturally I'd recommend the lovely simplicity of a telecaster with six saddles, one for each string.
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 7, 2019 21:07:21 GMT
A lot of learners can have difficulty with strat type guitars simply because of the tremolo (vibrato) system and tuning it. Harley Benton ST models come with it set so tight it's almost blocked and won't cause any difficulties until someone decides to loosen it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 22:03:59 GMT
In that case if you do have any tuning issues ALWAYS suspect the string slots in the nut (the little white plastic thing that the strings pass through on their way to the tuners) up by the headstock first and YouTube that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 22:06:15 GMT
Out of interest sportyspice, what kind of music are you hoping to play?
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Post by sportyspice on Nov 8, 2019 8:03:40 GMT
Plenty of questions here. Let's try. Wow thank you for the detailed response, you are amazing! I left the ST-20 out on purpose, as from what I understood (and also according to you) it is a lesser quality guitar than the rest, and I can easily afford any of the others. Do you think I should consider it just to save a few bucks or because it has a thinner neck? I also understand that I can sand down the neck if it really bothers me that much, and that will solve my problem. As for the rest of the guitars I listed, from what I understand from you, and correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't really any meaningful difference between all of them except the ones with difference pickups (57DG, 59HM & 70 BP). I listened to the demos provided on the page of each model, and the 57DG & 59HM (SK52 pickups) do indeed a have a warmer, "more vintage" sound to them while the rest of the models (STA pickups) sound more modern. I'd assume the SK52 pickups are more expensive? But I actually like the sound of the "regular" SK52 pickups bettter, so I'll probably go with that. This means that between remaining models I should just pick one based on price and looks. I like the look of the ST-62 SB & ST-62MN SB best, and they're also the cheapest so unless someone gives me any reason not to, I'm gonna go with one of these. Out of interest sportyspice , what kind of music are you hoping to play? There are 2-3 main styles of playing I'm most attracted to: (not sure if the 3rd is considered its own style) - Folkish strumming. This is usually done with acoustic steel guitars but not always. Favorite examples:
- Funk. Mostly Nile Rodgers, but also Funk-Rock fusion stuff like Red Hot Chili Peppers. Favorite examples:
- Simple melodies + Strumming hybrid. I don't know what's the correct technical term for this, or how else to define this. Hopefully these examples will clear out what I'm talking about:
So considering the kind of music I like, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seemed to me I should either get a steel acoustic or a strat. I was initially actually leaning more towards an acoustic, but after watching some videos online about the differences between them, I was quickly convinced that starting on an electric would be a much better choice for me. .
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 8, 2019 9:18:25 GMT
I left the ST-20 out on purpose, as from what I understood (and also according to you) it is a lesser quality guitar than the rest, and I can easily afford any of the others. Do you think I should consider it just to save a few bucks or because it has a thinner neck? I also understand that I can sand down the neck if it really bothers me that much, and that will solve my problem. … I like the look of the ST-62 SB & ST-62MN SB best, and they're also the cheapest so unless someone gives me any reason not to, I'm gonna go with one of these. … So considering the kind of music I like, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seemed to me I should either get a steel acoustic or a strat. I was initially actually leaning more towards an acoustic, but after watching some videos online about the differences between them, I was quickly convinced that starting on an electric would be a much better choice for me. You want something with clarity, something that can be strummed and made to sound detailed rather than "fat", so you have to go with single coils or with humbuckers that can be split. Strat's and Telecasters do that but also the JA-60, and quite a few others, like the new Fusion models (humbuckers with coil split) and most Ibanez. You should consider an ST-20 if they had the only colour you liked (if I wanted a white Strat' there would be no other choice) or if price were an issue. Since you don't have a problem with the neck yet, there is little reason to avoid the ST-62. It will shape your feeling for a "home" but so does any first guitar. Pick-ups make the most difference played clean (distortion drowns differences the more of it there is) so you really could be happier with the ST-62. I would generally recommend models with Roswell pick-ups over the lesser ones, which I found to lack clarity in comparisons I heard. You can hear this for yourself in this short video comparing the unbranded, cheapest pick-ups sold with the Harley Benton kits, the Roswell of a ST-70 and those of a Fender: The next big choice will be the amplifier or whatever you decide to use to make sounds.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 9:51:13 GMT
Interesting about those sorts of sounds. I was an acoustic strummer and picker for many years. Humbuckers on Les Pauls definitely didn't suit me for this. Strats did a lot but I didn't find 'home' till I tried a tele. Some of that has to do with the clear area between the two pickups for my picking and strumming hand - I use fingers rather than plectrums mostly. I suppose it most closely felt and sounded like an acoustic when played clean so all my songs worked on it without adjustment. So I was already a bit preconditioned to how an acoustic feels. You don't have that disadvantage. What I will say though is that a tele OR a strat is so much easier to play than an acoustic. Generally slimmer neck, lower strings (which can more easily be adjusted), smaller slimmer body, less finger pressure needed for soft baby finger tips. Maybe the only thing that can be a bit harder is the string spacing sometimes for getting all those fingers onto the strings when playing a chord without them bodging about and silencing other strings. You'll be fine with a strat but just think about the middle pickup that might get in the way a bit unless you lower its height somewhat. This is easy to do and totally designed to be done. I'll happily strum pluck and write away on my teles and strats without them even plugged in so an amp isn't even an essential straight away. The bonus of that is that you can barely even irritate your nearests and dearests if they are in the same room! Good luck.
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 8, 2019 15:04:55 GMT
You'll be fine with a strat but just think about the middle pickup that might get in the way a bit unless you lower its height somewhat. This is easy to do and totally designed to be done. I almost always play right over the neck pick-up and never notice it's there. I do take it down a bit, but nothing extreme.
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Post by sportyspice on Nov 8, 2019 15:07:35 GMT
The next big choice will be the amplifier or whatever you decide to use to make sounds. I am completely clueless in that regard, Any suggestions? As I have a bunch of good computers and some decent speakers, wouldn't I be better of using something like AmpliTube or Guitar Rig instead of a cheap amplifier?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:12:56 GMT
I don't think I ever play that far forward LeoThunder. I must admit I haven't thought about whether I do. Possibly if I want to feather a strum. Do you use fingers too? I have found my little shiny tele pickup makes a lovely handy 24-ish fret if I'm switched to the bridge one...
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 8, 2019 15:17:14 GMT
The next big choice will be the amplifier or whatever you decide to use to make sounds. I am completely clueless in that regard, Any suggestions? As I have a bunch of good computers and some decent speakers, wouldn't I be better of using something like AmpliTube or Guitar Rig instead of a cheap amplifier? Yes, you would as long as you're fine being tied to your computer system. If you wanted an amp, I would recommend something small with modelling capabilities anyway. You don't need to be loud to learn and modern modelling gives all the sounds you could possibly want at living room levels your neighbours wouldn't even notice. That's the way to go. If the time comes for you to play with others, you'll want a different solution but it won't be this year.
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3,457 posts
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Post by LeoThunder on Nov 8, 2019 15:27:39 GMT
I don't think I ever play that far forward LeoThunder . I must admit I haven't thought about whether I do. Possibly if I want to feather a strum. Do you use fingers too? Not on guitar. My picking position has always been close to the neck, it's the sound I go for. I even play over the fingerboard. It is different on bass, which I play fingerstyle in a diagonal from the bridge pickup on B to somewhere well past the neck pick-up on F. On a 4 string, I'll be all over that P thing. I have seen how people place "finger ramps" between pick-ups for some unclear purpose. No idea what it's for.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 15:36:05 GMT
These Yamahas get very good reports: and I would have bought one too if I had had that sort of money available to me at the time. However they do seem rather overpriced and, anyhow, these came along just as I was looking. There's a silly bit of hiss always audible on mine when it's sitting doing nothing but switched on but if I ignore that it does have some lovely clean to crunchy sounds and nice stereo w-i-d-e effects with reverb or delay on through its two speakers. I stay away from the more distorted modes. True, it's not as lovable to look at as the Yamaha either, in fact it's about as adorable as a flat pack TV stand, but it's done me good service in the garden and at the office. It's about to be donated to my son who's at uni and been learning guitar since the summer. Nice portable little thing that you CAN hook up to your computer if you are so inclined. Rather like LeoThunder I'd rather not be attached to one of those for any longer than strictly necessary.
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