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Post by juzz88 on Apr 14, 2020 16:42:24 GMT
Hi All. First post, please be gentle.
So I just got my first two HB guitars (with 3 more and an amp still to come - gotta love lockdown). A CST-24T, which is amazing, and a ST-62, which is "meh".
I'm going to try to set up the ST to be more like the CST, because to the naked eye I think the CST might have a slightly lower action. I've ordered an action gauge, so once it's arrived I'll be able to confirm and make any necessary adjustments.
But in the meantime I was looking for a more "deluxe" ST, in case I decide to return the ST-62 and upgrade it, but there isn't really anything to upgrade to. From what I can see, they all have the same tuners (other than the 70's models), and none of them mention what material the nut is made out of (other than the DG model), so I assume they are all plastic?
Why don't they make a nice 60's Strat with Grovers (or at least their "DLX" tuners) and a bone/graphite nut? Surely it would sell like hotcakes?
On a brighter note, I love my CST. I can move barre chords up and down the neck so well on that thing, I reckon I could trick people in to believing I actually know how to play!
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 14, 2020 17:04:55 GMT
Plastic nuts are just fine. Tuners have split posts, which are the original locking tuners, just cheaper without a fancy image. I guess they could have a higher ratio but all in all, tuners are not really worth upgrading.
The ST-70 have some fancier appointments, like a Wilkinson bridge, I think. The ST-90 has a two-point bridge too. All in all, I suppose HB do not make a more luxurious model because they would quickly run into competition with Squiers but that's just a wild guess. Maybe they tried earlier and it didn't sell. There are so many Strat' copies out there, I guess it only works at the very bottom of the price range.
You can measure action by stacking picks on top of each other. But seriously, there is no need to. I take my strings all the way down to buzzing, then up again where it's clean. The first time I did it, I used coins to see if my guitar was in the area of what is normal. Now I make precise measurements with feeler gauges after the fact for documentation purposes only.
Does your recent ST-62 still have a thick neck profile (23 mm at 1st fret, 24.5 mm at 12th) or have they become thinner?
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Post by juzz88 on Apr 14, 2020 17:18:05 GMT
Plastic nuts are just fine. Tuners have split posts, which are the original locking tuners, just cheaper without a fancy image. I guess they could have a higher ratio but all in all, tuners are not really worth upgrading. The ST-70 have some fancier appointments, like a Wilkinson bridge, I think. The ST-90 has a two-point bridge too. All in all, I suppose HB do not make a more luxurious model because they would quickly run into competition with Squiers but that's just a wild guess. Maybe they tried earlier and it didn't sell. There are so many Strat' copies out there, I guess it only works at the very bottom of the price range. You can measure action by stacking picks on top of each other. But seriously, there is no need to. I take my strings all the way down to buzzing, then up again where it's clean. The first time I did it, I used coins to see if my guitar was in the area of what is normal. Now I make precise measurements with feeler gauges after the fact for documentation purposes only. Does your recent ST-62 still have a thick neck profile (23 mm at 1st fret, 24.5 mm at 12th) or have they become thinner? Yeah, I'm probably just being precious. I need to spend more time practicing and less time complaining about hardware.
I thought about adjusting the action now, but I really want to get a precise measurement of the starting action for both guitars. I want to understand why I can play the CST so much better. Another 24 hours of waiting won't kill me.
I'm guessing I'll need calipers to measure the neck thickness, right? Or maybe a piece of string will work. It definitely feels thicker than my Squier Bullet neck, but not so much that it feels uncomfortable to me (crappy guitarist with small hands). I'll try get some measurements in the morning and get back to you.
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 14, 2020 17:40:40 GMT
You'd need calipers, yes. Thicker than a Squier is already valuable info. Don't go out of your way for this. How is the CST better? It could be the shape, the neck profile, the scale length… I had to lower action on every single guitar I got except on two that had been heavily used and got some serious set-up (I did on them anyway but could have lived without).
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 16, 2020 17:04:46 GMT
Leo, do you want any dimensions of the SC-Custom VB FR? If so which ones? Neck thickness (depth) at 1st and 12th fret, without the fret height. That's all I collect. With the year of manufacture, because that can change. I once had an SC-Custom myself but sold it before I thought of measuring it and my SC-7 has a much thinner profile.
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 17, 2020 0:14:36 GMT
measured with a cheap Chinese digital caliper. Same as mine. Thank you!
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Post by juzz88 on Apr 17, 2020 12:28:43 GMT
You'd need calipers, yes. Thicker than a Squier is already valuable info. Don't go out of your way for this. How is the CST better? It could be the shape, the neck profile, the scale length… I had to lower action on every single guitar I got except on two that had been heavily used and got some serious set-up (I did on them anyway but could have lived without). It was definitely the action (at least partly), the CST is barely 0.5mm at the low E on the first fret, the ST was close to 1mm. At the 12th fret, the ST was over 2mm!
After adding some slight relief to the neck and lowering the saddles a heap (they were jacked all the way up), it's playing a lot better. I might try and tighten the truss rod to undo about half of the relief I added yesterday, to see if I can get it a bit closer to the CST action, but it's not too far off.
The CST is ridiculous, the neck is as flat as a tack and it barely buzzes at all. I think I may invest in a set of calipers to measure the neck width, because I really want to understand what makes me like the CST's play-ability better.
The nut width is the same. As is the neck profile.
The scale length of the CST is 13mm shorter and it has 2 extra frets. However, the width of the first 3 frets on both guitars is within 1mm, so I doubt this would make a difference when playing open chords, or would it? It probably would explain it being easier to play barre chords up and down the neck.
The CST also has D'Addario 10's, whereas the ST has D'Addario 9's. The ST strings do feel "slinkyish", so maybe 10's will help?
I'm actually enjoying all of this measuring and tinkering.
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advb
Harley Benton Expert
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Post by advb on Apr 17, 2020 15:40:22 GMT
You'd need calipers, yes. Thicker than a Squier is already valuable info. Don't go out of your way for this. How is the CST better? It could be the shape, the neck profile, the scale length… I had to lower action on every single guitar I got except on two that had been heavily used and got some serious set-up (I did on them anyway but could have lived without). It was definitely the action (at least partly), the CST is barely 0.5mm at the low E on the first fret, the ST was close to 1mm. At the 12th fret, the ST was over 2mm!
1mm at the first fret is rather high. If you tune the open strings to pitch with a digital tuner, do you find that some open chords sound "sour"? If the nut is cut too high, you have to push the strings down more at the first few frets and that messes up the intonation and causes them to go sharp. Obviously, neck relief and the quality of the fretwork will have a major bearing on the action but getting the nut height correct also helps. If you fret the string between the second and third fret, is there much gap between the first fret and the string? A lot of people recommend the tiniest of gaps. This normally equates to an unfretted gap of 0.3mm - 0.5mm over the first fret. Which sounds much like your CST!
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Post by LeoThunder on Apr 17, 2020 15:53:00 GMT
A lot of people recommend the tiniest of gaps. This normally equates to an unfretted gap of 0.3mm - 0.5mm over the first fret. Which sounds much like your CST! That's right: High E: 0,35 mm, Low E: 0,75 mm
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