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Post by marit on May 7, 2016 22:00:59 GMT
Thanks @im2, intonation was ok, just a bit left that I can't pull out now.
When pushing the bigsby down the bridge slightly comes up (I tried getting it out that way but made no difference).
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Post by marit on May 7, 2016 22:37:55 GMT
Looks straight to me.
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Post by marit on May 7, 2016 23:46:36 GMT
Now, to me that looks like an awfully steep angle from saddles to the underside of the Bigsby roller. The bridge is high to give enough clearance over those already high pickups and then the roller is down very low. That's a heck of a lot of tension and forward thrust on the bridge. It can hardly help but rock. It's almost as though the Bigsby is too close to the bridge, like it's the wrong kind of Bigsby. See the difference on this Gretsch: I'm off to research this a bit more 'cos I'd be hugely tempted to try ignoring the Bigsby roller and stringing straight to the string bar. Could be wrong though if string tension is the only thing keeping the bridge in place. Ah I see what you mean now. Checking the pictures on the Thomann website the strings are similarly steep. I won't be using the bigsby much and will probably be putting .11 strings on it which should help relieve stress? The bridge feels properly adjusted, so does the bigsby I must add.
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Post by Lm2 on May 8, 2016 8:05:43 GMT
Now, to me that looks like an awfully steep angle from saddles to the underside of the Bigsby roller. The bridge is high to give enough clearance over those already high pickups and then the roller is down very low. That's a heck of a lot of tension and forward thrust on the bridge. It can hardly help but rock. It's almost as though the Bigsby is too close to the bridge, like it's the wrong kind of Bigsby. See the difference on this Gretsch: I'm off to research this a bit more 'cos I'd be hugely tempted to try ignoring the Bigsby roller and stringing straight to the string bar. Could be wrong though if string tension is the only thing keeping the bridge in place. Ah I see what you mean now. Checking the pictures on the Thomann website the strings are similarly steep. I won't be using the bigsby much and will probably be putting .11 strings on it which should help relieve stress? The bridge feels properly adjusted, so does the bigsby I must add. Yes, the angle from the saddles to the underside of the Bigsby roller is indeed very high. I remember that when dealing with the bridge I noticed it too when loosening the strings. I felt the pressure and it felt unnatural so in the end I loosened the bridge to see how much it would raise itself and it went very high. My solution : The bridge is fixed on 2 spots to the body. The screws holding it are very long. I put a nut around both screws so the bigsby is sitting on a higher angle now. Will post a pic of that modification later. Played the guitar this morning after putting it aside for at least 1 month. Had to tune the G string and everything else is working fine. To my amazement moving the bigsby from rest to active position did not change the string tuning. It is an amazing guitar (and big )
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608 posts
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Post by oghkhood on May 8, 2016 8:40:27 GMT
Floating bridge is exactly the main feature that makes archtop guitars what they are : the design is directly inherited from the violin. And string pressure is the only thing that holds the bridge in place. in fact, if the angle of the strings on the saddles is not sufficient, you will either experience loose tuning stability and huge guitar voicing loss. If too much angle, you'd only increase the risk of string breaking. So if you discover that the bridge is glued, or screwed in place or anything else, you have to return the guitar !So Marit, you should be able to put off the cloth by loosening the strings. Then you'll be able to slightly lift the bridge and take the thing out ... and then get your Bigtone sound the way you expect it to.... and more Of course this means you'll have to check-up the intonation. But you may ease this by, for instance, measuring the string length of the two E between their respctive saddles and the contact point of the Bigsby. Don't be scared, this is really not difficult to do EDIT : and yes the Bigsby on the Bigtone is closer to the bridge than either on Gretsch or my €pi Swingster. But This is not an issue because the Bigsby is screwed on the former whereas it is totally floating on the 2 later. And about the pressure making move the table, all the archtop with Bigsby are subject to this, more or less, but the ones with a central block ... that are not true archtop
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608 posts
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Post by oghkhood on May 8, 2016 9:03:52 GMT
Yes this model is unsual on a jazz archtop layout, but why not ? I'm afraid it won't work, as the rear bar of this vibrato is placed higher thant the front. .... then there may not be enough angle. And should I add : better more angle than less, on this kind of guitar Anyway, I think Marit should first let it set up the way it is supposed to be (aka without this uggly piece of cloth ). I think her mistrust is mainly caused by her lack of experience with this kind of guitar. Just remember that this model has been released time ago, and as far as we know, Harley Benton deserves our confidence.
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Post by daveb on May 8, 2016 10:39:31 GMT
Can you guys help out on what the heck could be wrong and how they've put that cotton stuff under there? I got most of it off now but I saw the entire bridge moving a bit whilst doing so. Absolutely ridiculous. It does look like Thomann have changed the Bigtone back to a floating design (where the bridge is simply held in place by string tension). The cotton strip is just packaging. You need to remove ALL of it or the tone will suffer. Mark the bridge position with tape. Loosen the strings and wiggle the bridge - it should come right off. Remove all the cotton, then replace the bridge and tune up. If the bridge moves about when playing, stick it in place with some violin rosin - a common trick recommended by Gretsch owners. On the string angle - I fixed mine with a few washers under the bigsby to raise it up a little.
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Post by Lm2 on May 8, 2016 14:20:09 GMT
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Post by teenie on May 8, 2016 17:02:07 GMT
Congratulations .......
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Post by Lm2 on May 8, 2016 18:18:33 GMT
Good shot Lm2. That photo definitely shows there would be enough angle. Out of interest, why did you raise it to a shallower angle still? In my mind I was thinking that too much tension will wear out the strings too fast or it was just that type of nuts that I had lying around . As I said before, the guitar is playing beautiful after all the mods.
I learned a lot by tweaking all the guitars that I bought (even not HB). I am on my way to become a luthier .
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Post by marit on May 8, 2016 21:12:57 GMT
Just to add in my 2 cents, isn't the steep angle due to different type of bigsbys, because yours is quite different to mine. For example: An Epiphone Wildkat ("same" as the bigtone to me): A Gretsch Electromatic (same as yours): No I don't have any trouble other than the cloth being underneath the bridge but there's only a tiny bit left anyway. I'm glad I got you guys talking tho, please continue
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