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Post by marit on May 8, 2016 21:20:51 GMT
I was in a bit of negative spiral last night and everything was against me, looking at the guitar again now I'm still in love with her (I sound like a lesbian but anyway). She sounds just fine to me but still haven't plugged her in, will do so tomorrow. Also when my goldtop will arrive, woop!
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Post by marit on May 9, 2016 10:25:48 GMT
DefJef: I think I understand it a little bit, defjef. So what goes for the Wildkat will go for the Bigtone I'm guessing? Or are you saying it doesn't because HB have chosen for the b7 eventhough they wouldn't have had to?
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on May 9, 2016 11:02:32 GMT
DefJef : I think I understand it a little bit, defjef. So what goes for the Wildkat will go for the Bigtone I'm guessing? Or are you saying it doesn't because HB have chosen for the b7 eventhough they wouldn't have had to? Hi marit. I have no idea why HB have chosen that B7 for the Big Tone. Without seeing inside it I have no idea what they have screwed it to since it's supposed to be a hollow body. The screws on the Bigsby MUST go into something but what? Can you see with a light or a mirror or the camera on your phone what on earth is going on inside this guitar? The most I would expect to be inside would be a sound post beneath the bridge to support the tension. The usual Bigsby approach on such a hollow guitar is for it to only be fixed at the strap button like this Gretsch Chet Atkins No screws into the top at all. The Wildkat has a block of wood inside to screw into (just like an ES335). HOWEVER, it's not totally unknown to fit a B7 onto a hollow body. Look at Paul McCartney's Casino, but he must have fitted a block of some kind inside to fix it to. Whatever, John Lennon clearly didn't like his anyway. And even Gretsch HAVE done it on their acoustic Rancher, but, by all accounts had to strengthen the inside to take it which would explain it's rather poor performance unplugged. Even Thomann themselves list the B7 as being for an archtopped solid body so again, I wonder why they chose not to use the B3 Thomann B7
And you must excuse the price. Bigsby clearly have a great sense of humour.
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Post by oghkhood on May 9, 2016 11:41:09 GMT
I vote for a mistake on either the design or the BoM for the Bigtone, so industrial process error.
And perhaps the tail of the B7 was too long thus making it lifted from the table by the string tension.
Anyway, I think this is not a real issue with the Bigtone, earing how she sounds. And more, I want to stress that the more angle on the bridge saddles, the better it is for the vibration transfert to the table. The fact that the table is a bit deformed by the pressure is pointless, putting that the guitar was made in the state of the arts. Every model of archtop is showing more or less this move of the table when playing the Bigsby. This is the tribute to full hollowbody design
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on May 9, 2016 12:01:57 GMT
Hi oghkhood . Did you see the behind bridge angle on the Chet Atkins or, indeed, the Electromatic? Quite a shallow angle. Chet Atkins was a stickler for sustain and pushed Gretsch to give him more. I fear that too great an angle behind the bridge will push the bridge forward, even tip it because it is not balanced out by the string angle in front of the bridge. It's a bit like a house of cards: two cards leant against each other at the same angle will happily support each other, change one of those angles and things become a little unstable. Or the ridge of a roof, when it is taking the pressure of both sides evenly it functions very well, start to play with one side of the roof in relation to the other like some architects' more esoteric designs and you get into a whole load of roof truss problems. The steeper angle that you see on tunomatic guitars like the Les Paul or ES335 with B7 Bigsbys is braced by the fact that the tunomatic bridge is screwed down onto posts. Even then it's not unknown for Les Paul bridges to collapse forward under too great tension and is one of the main reasons that guitar guru Dan Erlewine recommends raising the stopbar on Les Pauls. nappel knows all about this!
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Post by marit on May 9, 2016 12:59:58 GMT
Were there always b7 type bigsbys in the BigTone? If there would've been any issues with it on previous models they would have surely changed it, but haven't. I have emailed Thomann about the issues I had with the piece of cloth, the stains on some parts of the guitar (the "birthmarks") and the case being too big. I have suggested they design a case just for this guitar since it's quite unique, let's see what they say. I have put golden knobs on it to get closer to a G6120 Chet Atkins, specifically NY's guitar: For the keen eyes, yes there's one Gretsch knob on it at the top, could afford to get one shipped from China, not 4
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Post by oghkhood on May 9, 2016 13:13:28 GMT
I didn't think about this. But there left to check wether it is like this or not. So my opinion is that we better stop to frighten Marit and wait for her feed back after she have give it a try, isn't it ? that's why I'm recommending not to change anything prior to a serious test.
And ilke you underlined it yourself, if the angle was really too strong, she always can shunt the front bar when changing her strings.
And another point : a floatting is by definition ... floatting ! This means that any action on it is liable to slightly (or more) change its set up. Be it a repeting action on the Biggsby, your right hand hitting hit while playing, or any kind of mystake when handling the guitar. And the less string pressure, the more the bridge is liable to move. Thus the use of violin resin is a very good idea.
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608 posts
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Post by oghkhood on May 10, 2016 18:44:40 GMT
I vote for a mistake on either the design or the BoM for the Bigtone, so industrial process error. And perhaps the tail of the B7 was too long thus making it lifted from the table by the string tension. Anyway, I think this is not a real issue with the Bigtone, earing how she sounds. And more, I want to stress that the more angle on the bridge saddles, the better it is for the vibration transfert to the table. The fact that the table is a bit deformed by the pressure is pointless, putting that the guitar was made in the state of the arts. Every model of archtop is showing more or less this move of the table when playing the Bigsby. This is the tribute to full hollowbody design According to Bigsby site itself, the B7 - thus the one installed ont the bigtone - is disgned for archtop guitars : www.bigsby.com/vibe/products/vibratos/bigsby-b7/
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on May 10, 2016 22:20:56 GMT
They are a bit fuzzy about all that aren't they? The B3 is described as designed for hollow and semi hollow guitars as are the B11, B30, B60 etc. The B6 in particular is described as for large hollow guitars (a BigTone might fit that bill very well), whilst most others are described as being for flat topped guitars, by which they mean the likes of a strat, telecaster, SG etc. This leaves the poor purchaser slightly misled into believing that an archtop guitar must be a hollow guitar which, of course is incorrect. A Les Paul and a solid PRS are also arch topped as is an ES335, which would not be described as hollow, and that is where a B7 or B70 belong. It looks as though Harley Benton were similarly confused when speccing this design. Or else Saein had a load of spare B7s and could see a good outlet. Try this link on their site for a bit more fuzzy clarification: Which Bigsby will fit my guitar?
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Post by marit on May 11, 2016 10:13:22 GMT
Thanks defjef! You're the man!
Went on a bit of a survival yesterday taking the frames off wanting to replace them, not realising the pickup is actually attached to the frame and well, it all went a bit wrong. Good news is the cloth is away and my boyfriend has put it back together. We'll now get into intonating it again, any tips? I saw something about the low E string measuring etc., but didn't quite understand it.
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Post by tarn on May 11, 2016 10:37:22 GMT
I saw something about the low E string measuring etc., but didn't quite understand it. its fairly simple if you take the scale lenght of 648mm as given on the Thomann site, and take the formula. Using the distance from the nut to the 12th fret (we’ll call this measurement “x”), measure from the 12th fret to the bridge. then add for each string the following: corrected measurement Low E: 0,8mm longer than X A: 1,6mm longer than X D: 3,2mm longer than X G: 0,8mm longer than X B: 1,6mm longer than X High E: 3,2mm longer than X it becomes Low E: 0,8mm longer than 648=648,8mm A: 1,6mm longer than 648=649,6mm D: 3,2mm longer than 648=651mm G: 0,8mm longer than 648=648,8mm B: 1,6mm longer than 648=649,6mm High E: 3,2mm longer than 648=651mm this is measured from the nut to the high point of the bridge, while this measurement will get you 99% there you'll still need a little tweak here and there. hope this is a bit clearer.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on May 11, 2016 11:47:25 GMT
Thanks defjef! You're the man! Went on a bit of a survival yesterday taking the frames off wanting to replace them, not realising the pickup is actually attached to the frame and well, it all went a bit wrong. Good news is the cloth is away and my boyfriend has put it back together. We'll now get into intonating it again, any tips? I saw something about the low E string measuring etc., but didn't quite understand it. I love your understated sentence. As for intonating, may I refer you to our astrophysics engineer, tarn , above.
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608 posts
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Post by oghkhood on May 11, 2016 14:01:01 GMT
Thanks defjef! You're the man! Went on a bit of a survival yesterday taking the frames off wanting to replace them, not realising the pickup is actually attached to the frame and well, it all went a bit wrong. Good news is the cloth is away and my boyfriend has put it back together. We'll now get into intonating it again, any tips? I saw something about the low E string measuring etc., but didn't quite understand it. Intonation stuff is about having the same note when fretted 12th, as the E sounding open. So the basic work consits in using a tuenr, playing the E open, and the compare to E 12th, and then set up the saddle bridge accordingly. As your bridge is floating, you will just need to set both E strings by adjusting the bridge position. And don't touch the saddles and bridge height, as they are supposed to be already adjusted TIP : when comparing string open vs string 12th, make sure the open is tuned OK
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