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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Oct 22, 2018 11:37:26 GMT
I'm not arguing with you but as I said build a les paul copy exactly and start selling them. You're probably right but if Thomann can get away by making a horn a little pointier (and only nerds would know it, I certainly wouldn't have noticed unless told), then that allowed percentage of similarity is apparently 100 minus whatever can be put into a few words. Any little difference will see you free to pillage someone else's successful design idea. I think the spacing and layout of controls is also taken into account. As you say they look very similar but the nerds do notice! Patents run out eventually but trademarks don't, I can't see how you can trademark a guitar but the headstock/logo side I can see. The HB "les paul's" I have seen have better neck heel design than a Gibson again this is another difference when the two are put side by side. The most blatant strat copy is the PRS silver sky but that I think is due to Fender losing the court case over strats & teles?
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 12:15:18 GMT
You're probably right but if Thomann can get away by making a horn a little pointier (and only nerds would know it, I certainly wouldn't have noticed unless told), then that allowed percentage of similarity is apparently 100 minus whatever can be put into a few words. Any little difference will see you free to pillage someone else's successful design idea. I think the spacing and layout of controls is also taken into account. As you say they look very similar but the nerds do notice! Patents run out eventually but trademarks don't, I can't see how you can trademark a guitar but the headstock/logo side I can see. The HB "les paul's" I have seen have better neck heel design than a Gibson again this is another difference when the two are put side by side. The most blatant strat copy is the PRS silver sky but that I think is due to Fender losing the court case over strats & teles? Patents apply to inventions, which are a way of doing something, not to aesthetic designs. You can patent a certain way of sewing cloth together but not the cut of a dress. The mechanism of a Floyd Rose bridge is patented, not the way it looks. I wonder if I could make any money selling wooden covers in Floyd Rose look for regular Strat's. There's a business idea So it seems you can't copyright a guitar shape or an exact knob disposition. I suppose it wasn't always so, hence the lawsuits of the 70s, but that Fender case might have settled it, at least for designs so popular they have come to be thought of as "public domain". And indeed, it would not seem right that music by the Beatles be public domain but not product shapes by Fender and Gibson. It could still be different for recent designs. I don't know. The PRS Silver Sky is far from an exact copy, by the way. It has a few visible changes to the shape too:
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Oct 22, 2018 12:40:59 GMT
You maybe right LeoThunder but would Prs have built a strat clone had Fender won it's case? Prs has a very good name in terms of build quality and playability, they are obviously after a chunk of Fender's market. Not that I have any problems with that, but I would prefer them to take the Ibanez route. Ibanez went from making copies to redesigning and improving existing designs/ideas. There is nothing wrong with classic designs but it is nice to see something new/different. I like the designs Music Man are producing the Ernie Ball company seem more true to the original owner/creator Leo Fender ideals and innovation than Fender. So many guitars, so little time! Who said that? 😎
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 13:08:02 GMT
The PRS Silver Sky is a signature model. It is a pure publicity operation in which both names benefit from the added exposure and association. The PRS and Ibanez routes are the same, both mostly rely on their own creations while also improving on classic designs, like this:
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Post by Vincent on Oct 22, 2018 13:14:08 GMT
PRS do make great guitars but with this model they have shown themselves to be no less than just another rip-off company (like Thomann's Harley Benton line for example). PRS survived a court case with Gibson some years ago. I forget all the details but it might have been about the PRS Singlecut model. It was removed from sale case pending and back onsale following the judgement. It is not difficult to see what the PRS Silver Sky is/isn't pretending to be but if you are wondering where PRS borrowed the color from then below is a 1980 Gibson Flying V Silver Sky. Amusing? Funnier still PRS have trademarked 'Silver Sky' so if Gibson wanted to re-issue the Flying V in this color there could be a problem.
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Post by Vincent on Oct 22, 2018 13:18:41 GMT
So many guitars, so little time! Who said that? 😎 You did just now.
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 13:46:45 GMT
I'm wondering now, did Stradivarius rip Guarneri off or was it the other way around? Does anyone care?
Listening to this one as I type. I don't know what violin she plays…
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 14:03:58 GMT
Oh no! I'm listening to her new recording and I don't like it. She's changed so much in 20 years. I liked her clean, lean playing and she's gone all fussy, with too much vibrato and inflexions all over the place. It doesn't sound like Bach anymore, just like someone showing off "expressiveness". She never needed that. She could play Schönberg's violin concerto and make it sound good, now that's something. I'm sad Sorry for the off-topic. Here's the Schönberg, to clean it all off.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Oct 22, 2018 14:23:38 GMT
The trademarking of a name containing a colour daft. Silver Sky is a poor effort for the name of a guitar. Vincent your right about the single cut PRS vs Gibson case.
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 15:29:13 GMT
Talking about copies, originals and everything in between, someone is selling a restored Hertiecaster (German budget guitar from the 70s) with 4 pick-ups, tortoise pickguard in Precision shape, funny vibrato and retainer bar. I wonder where that falls:
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 16:55:27 GMT
That's because they were probably the same, Japanese Teisco guitars sold in supermarkets. Hertie was (still is) a German chain of large stores. They no longer sell guitars, though.
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Post by LeoThunder on Oct 22, 2018 17:08:32 GMT
The ebay description says the vibrato is "new", but maybe it's only the bar.
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