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Post by marit on May 27, 2016 21:58:15 GMT
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on May 28, 2016 17:31:27 GMT
I've no experience with those but I think they should fit.
Are you also going to install a bigsby and an aluminium pickguard?
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Post by marit on May 28, 2016 21:07:41 GMT
I've no experience with those but I think they should fit. Are you also going to install a bigsby and an aluminium pickguard? Yes, bigsby is ordered as well. My boyfriend will be drilling holes NY-style (you can see the holes from the original bridge in the guitar). Am looking for an aluminium pickguard, any ideas where I could get one? Whenever I order from Thomann and they've processed the order it can take up to a day to get it out and shipped, whilst on the website they state the obvious that it'll be done within a few hours. Anybody else have this experience? |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 21:09:49 GMT
They look slightly rounder at the corners than a P90. Do Thomann have any specification sheets/ dimension drawings? Mind you this looks very encouraging : Mini humbucker fit?Did you give up on a Firebird one marit ? |
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Post by marit on May 28, 2016 21:46:59 GMT
They look slightly rounder at the corners than a P90. Do Thomann have any specification sheets/ dimension drawings? Mind you this looks very encouraging : Mini humbucker fit?Did you give up on a Firebird one marit ? Gibson website states it should fit, was just wondering if you guys knew how easy/hard it would be to do the wiring etc. Yes I did defjef. I found this one and it says "Today, it is best known as the pickup in the Gibson Firebird", which is good because Neil Young's pickup came from a firebird guitar. I wasn't sure how easy or hard it would be to install a firebird pickup into a P90 guitar, so this way I won't have the exact NY look but I should have the sound. And it was a bit less expensive than the Seymour Duncan Firebird one I'd found  |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 8:42:34 GMT
marit . I'd love to know who wrote that advice because all the info that I have is the following from Gibson's website: "Ever since the post-Buffalo Springfield days, when Young really wants to rock, he does it on a Gibson Les Paul. Namely, one particular Les Paul known as “Old Black,” a battered, modified guitar that started life as a 1953 Goldtop with P-90 pickups, but now wears a Bigsby vibrato tailpiece, Firebird mini-humbucker in the bridge position, aluminum pickguard and neck pickup cover (still the P-90 there), and a heavily scuffed layer of matte black paint over its original gold finish. While singlecoiled P-90s are themselves no strangers to rockin’ out, the Gibson Firebird pickup that Young frequently selects for the more slicing solo expeditions has a character entirely its own. The Firebird mini-humbucker appears outwardly like the mini-humbucker used on other Gibson guitars such as the Les Paul Deluxe, except for its solid cover. Underneath, however, critical differences are revealed. Whereas the standard, Epiphone-derived mini-humbucker is designed like a PAF-type humbucker but narrower, with a bar magnet placed beneath the two coils and in contact with the individual steel pole pieces running through them, the Firebird pickup is constructed with two alnico bar magnets, positioned one each within the two coils, in a dual-blade-styled design. Using magnetic material within the coil helps to increase a pickup’s definition and treble response; the Firebird pickup is, therefore, a little weaker than the standard PAF-style humbucker or mini-humbucker, and also a lot brighter than either. As heard in Young’s playing, it’s also a very lively pickup, with a certain amount of microphony contributing to the dimension of the sound, and also easing the way to feedback, a tool that Young exploits like few other players. (For a shortcut to Neil Young’s feedback zone, check out the 1991 release Arc, a montage of feedback segments at the beginnings and ends of songs from the Ragged Glory tour, the full songs themselves released on the live Weld album.)" You can find a lot of misinformation too. Like this for example from minihumbuckers.com who ought to know better: "Mini humbuckers are a smaller variation of the original designed humbucker pickup, the PAF model. They have a slightly lower output level when in comparison to the originals, and stand in between the full humbuckers and the single coils, in terms of tone. This is hard to describe with words, but is the best comparison to do. Mini humbuckers were created by Epiphone, and used primarily in epiphones, which now Gibson owns, and have tons of usages, but the most common are for jazz guitars and archtops. In the seventies, they replaced the original single coil that used to come along with the gibson les paul´s. Today they can be found in thousands of guitar models, including firebirds, which Neil Young used to replace one of his gibson les paul goldtop pickups, and the result was a very unique tone, bright and focused." Be careful  I've sent Gibson an email so we'll see if they can be arsed to answer it. Perhaps they are a bit more concerned about customer service than Bigsby who couldn't give a hoot. 
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on May 29, 2016 11:16:06 GMT
marit You might have been better off spending your cash on the following. Hand wound so likely to be better quality too. www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/creamery-classic-firebird-style-pickup.htmlBTW - if you ever see photos of Old Black or Neil's goldtops you can see he has the firebird pickup set very close to the strings - which I presume is because it's quite a bit weaker than the neck P90.
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Post by marit on May 29, 2016 11:36:42 GMT
marit . I'd love to know who wrote that advice because all the info that I have is the following from Gibson's website: "Ever since the post-Buffalo Springfield days, when Young really wants to rock, he does it on a Gibson Les Paul. Namely, one particular Les Paul known as “Old Black,” a battered, modified guitar that started life as a 1953 Goldtop with P-90 pickups, but now wears a Bigsby vibrato tailpiece, Firebird mini-humbucker in the bridge position, aluminum pickguard and neck pickup cover (still the P-90 there), and a heavily scuffed layer of matte black paint over its original gold finish. While singlecoiled P-90s are themselves no strangers to rockin’ out, the Gibson Firebird pickup that Young frequently selects for the more slicing solo expeditions has a character entirely its own. The Firebird mini-humbucker appears outwardly like the mini-humbucker used on other Gibson guitars such as the Les Paul Deluxe, except for its solid cover. Underneath, however, critical differences are revealed. Whereas the standard, Epiphone-derived mini-humbucker is designed like a PAF-type humbucker but narrower, with a bar magnet placed beneath the two coils and in contact with the individual steel pole pieces running through them, the Firebird pickup is constructed with two alnico bar magnets, positioned one each within the two coils, in a dual-blade-styled design. Using magnetic material within the coil helps to increase a pickup’s definition and treble response; the Firebird pickup is, therefore, a little weaker than the standard PAF-style humbucker or mini-humbucker, and also a lot brighter than either. As heard in Young’s playing, it’s also a very lively pickup, with a certain amount of microphony contributing to the dimension of the sound, and also easing the way to feedback, a tool that Young exploits like few other players. (For a shortcut to Neil Young’s feedback zone, check out the 1991 release Arc, a montage of feedback segments at the beginnings and ends of songs from the Ragged Glory tour, the full songs themselves released on the live Weld album.)" You can find a lot of misinformation too. Like this for example from minihumbuckers.com who ought to know better: "Mini humbuckers are a smaller variation of the original designed humbucker pickup, the PAF model. They have a slightly lower output level when in comparison to the originals, and stand in between the full humbuckers and the single coils, in terms of tone. This is hard to describe with words, but is the best comparison to do. Mini humbuckers were created by Epiphone, and used primarily in epiphones, which now Gibson owns, and have tons of usages, but the most common are for jazz guitars and archtops. In the seventies, they replaced the original single coil that used to come along with the gibson les paul´s. Today they can be found in thousands of guitar models, including firebirds, which Neil Young used to replace one of his gibson les paul goldtop pickups, and the result was a very unique tone, bright and focused." Be careful I've sent Gibson an email so we'll see if they can be arsed to answer it. Perhaps they are a bit more concerned about customer service than Bigsby who couldn't give a hoot. This is where I read that, defjef. They do also mention the "bar Alnico II magnets", and also the bright and focussed bit! On paper it should be good, the reviews on Thomann were good so I'm hopeful  |
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Post by marit on May 29, 2016 11:45:35 GMT
marit You might have been better off spending your cash on the following. Hand wound so likely to be better quality too. www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/creamery-classic-firebird-style-pickup.htmlBTW - if you ever see photos of Old Black or Neil's goldtops you can see he has the firebird pickup set very close to the strings - which I presume is because it's quite a bit weaker than the neck P90. They look good, salteedog, will keep that in mind. Can't quite make out whether it's a mini humbucker size or Firebird. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 12:13:13 GMT
marit . I'd love to know who wrote that advice because all the info that I have is the following from Gibson's website: I've sent Gibson an email so we'll see if they can be arsed to answer it. Perhaps they are a bit more concerned about customer service than Bigsby who couldn't give a hoot. They do also mention the "bar Alnico II magnets", and also the bright and focussed bit! On paper it should be good, the reviews on Thomann were good so I'm hopeful Yes, I read that as well and have pointed Gibson at the misleading information. We'll see what they say considering the fact that their Neil Young article and indeed our own eyes seem to state the exact opposite! I also asked them what mini humbucker an Epiphone user should buy for their Riviera. If they suggest the same pickup then something is very amiss. Surely an original Firebird pickup is AlNiCo 5 and unpotted. That's where Neil get's his squeal from isn't it? I really don't understand how two of the most established brands in the guitar world, those of Gibson and Bigsby, can be so hazy about their own products. At least Fender seem to get it right. It's as I have always said, it's not hard to be good at business, you just have to help the customer. And do as you promise. Bigsby have fallen well short. Let's hope Gibson aren't equally inefficient. It's another reason to like Thomann even if their advice is sometimes a bit suspect too. |
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Post by marit on May 29, 2016 13:02:56 GMT
store.gibson.com/mini-humbucker-bridge-pickup/This is where I read that, defjef. They do also mention the "bar Alnico II magnets", and also the bright and focussed bit! On paper it should be good, the reviews on Thomann were good so I'm hopeful Yes, I read that as well and have pointed Gibson at the misleading information. We'll see what they say considering the fact that their Neil Young article and indeed our own eyes seem to state the exact opposite! I also asked them what mini humbucker an Epiphone user should buy for their Riviera. If they suggest the same pickup then something is very amiss. Surely an original Firebird pickup is AlNiCo 5 and unpotted. That's where Neil get's his squeal from isn't it? I really don't understand how two of the most established brands in the guitar world, those of Gibson and Bigsby, can be so hazy about their own products. At least Fender seem to get it right. It's as I have always said, it's not hard to be good at business, you just have to help the customer. And do as you promise. Bigsby have fallen well short. Let's hope Gibson aren't equally inefficient. It's another reason to like Thomann even if their advice is sometimes a bit suspect too. I'm sorry I not understand quite  What is the misleading info Gibson give? That a Firebird pickup does not have alnico II magnets? It's definitely unpotted, I know that. I find Bigsby lacking on their own website. I was trying to understand what's the difference between just buying a bigsby B-7 or buying a bigsby B-7 kit, I thought that meant it included the Vibratemate but that's not the case. I still don't know what the difference is. I also tried to find what bigsbys exist for lefthanded players and couldn't find anything on that either. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 14:26:42 GMT
Yes, I read that as well and have pointed Gibson at the misleading information. We'll see what they say considering the fact that their Neil Young article and indeed our own eyes seem to state the exact opposite! I also asked them what mini humbucker an Epiphone user should buy for their Riviera. If they suggest the same pickup then something is very amiss. Surely an original Firebird pickup is AlNiCo 5 and unpotted. That's where Neil get's his squeal from isn't it? I really don't understand how two of the most established brands in the guitar world, those of Gibson and Bigsby, can be so hazy about their own products. At least Fender seem to get it right. It's as I have always said, it's not hard to be good at business, you just have to help the customer. And do as you promise. Bigsby have fallen well short. Let's hope Gibson aren't equally inefficient. It's another reason to like Thomann even if their advice is sometimes a bit suspect too. I'm sorry I not understand quite What is the misleading info Gibson give? That a Firebird pickup does not have alnico II magnets? It's definitely unpotted, I know that. I find Bigsby lacking on their own website. I was trying to understand what's the difference between just buying a bigsby B-7 or buying a bigsby B-7 kit, I thought that meant it included the Vibratemate but that's not the case. I still don't know what the difference is. I also tried to find what bigsbys exist for lefthanded players and couldn't find anything on that either. Yes marit. The Gibson site says, "...a vintage replica of the original mini humbucker with bar Alnico II magnets. The Gibson mini humbucker is authentic in every detail, from its cream-colored plastic mounting and coated enamel-like wire, to its maple spacers and vintage braided lead wire. The tone is unmistakable Gibson. The mini humbucker is available for the bridge or neck position, and is equipped with braided, two–conductor wiring and fully wax potted to eliminate microphonic feedback." Firebirds were Alnico 5 for more aggressive crunch and not wax potted. Those two factors would explain Mr Young's mighty sound. Vibramates aren't made by Bigsby. They are sold by a separate company. As for left handed Bigsbys. They do make 'em though you may be charged more for your wonky ways. (Don't think they do actually). |
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Post by marit on May 29, 2016 21:37:56 GMT
The mini HB should be here tuesday and Bigsby end of the week. We'll then put both on the guitar. I'm happy anyway with my choice. Might not be able to handle all that feedback. Thanks as ever for the info, defjef Musicstore has the lefty I would want but it's b-stock which is a bit meh. |
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Post by marit on May 31, 2016 20:41:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 21:20:24 GMT
Received it today!  There's the giveaway marit. The Firebird didn't share a pickup with the LP deluxe. I hope it gives you the tone you need but I think Gibson should be ashamed of themselves misleading the public like that. They CAN'T not know that they developed a different pickup for there own guitar. Just hope Mr Young was equally misled and bought one and has since claimed it was a Firebird pickup. You never know  |
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