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Post by hallon on Aug 10, 2019 11:42:16 GMT
There are many reasons why a Gison vs Harley benton can be valid. One obvious reason is to make people think about value, and what is it that makes one guitar cost ten times more than the other. Most people will assume that they sound so much better, And sure, many times they do, but always? And do they sound ten times better, or even just twice as good? Another valid point is to put pressure on the expensive names in the business, are their instruments automatically so much better than other, lesser well known and often times cheaper brands? And the list goes on... You may have valid points. As I said in an earlier post they can be made to sound very similar. I think many people act on autopilot and these kind of expensive vs cheap tests, will snap some people up from the autopilot thinking, where they take for granted that a super expensive guitar must sound so much better than a very inexpensive one. Even with the quality rep Gibson has had over the past few years. People who want well known established brands will buy those. Many people who can afford expensive gear will most likely buy anyway, sure. But many people who can not afford, will feel a lot better knowing that they can produce good results with much less money involved. You quoted my opinion, I can't see the point of this type of review. That's all it is my opinion Yes, you have an opinion, and I have, and that is what makes discussions interesting. If we all had the same opinion about everything, that would be kinda boring Having said that, I do think there i a point in discussing different opinions, because we will get a chance to learn from each other.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 10, 2019 12:24:05 GMT
But, in my experience, a producer doesn't seem to mind what guitar you bring along as long as you've changed the strings recently (if you haven't he may well suggest you do). He's generally interested in whether you are wasting his and your time. This video was meant to sing the praise of the Precision Bass but all it really does is underline that the bass player is the guy whose sound barely matters as long as it's the same as that of the previous day because technicians can't be bothered spending one more minute fine tuning him:
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 10, 2019 12:24:28 GMT
Thank you hallon for your reply and breakdown. I agree with a lot of what you posted and agree discussing our opinions is of value. I am in no way a gear snob I play Epiphone, Squier, Harley Benton and the like because I believe they are reasonably good instruments. I could afford a Gibson or other brand I'm not really limited to a budget. I am however no Peter Green or Billy Gibbons and never will be. A high price guitar will sadly not make me as good as the those mentioned, if it would I would be spending big $$$. That's the maim thing for me something that's playable and has a reasonably good sound. If I have to make adjustments or minor modifications it's not a problem. I don't play live and have no intention of ever doing so. I see on YouTube reviews of Glarry guitars that are priced £60. They may be very good I don't know? I pay what I think is a reason price for a suitable guitar for my needs/wants and ability.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 10, 2019 12:54:12 GMT
I think many people act on autopilot and these kind of expensive vs cheap tests, will snap some people up from the autopilot thinking, where they take for granted that a super expensive guitar must sound so much better than a very inexpensive one. The real issue is just plain old and legitimate ignorance. Before I had experience with various guitars, I couldn't tell the difference. I would have been inclined to presume that a cheap Harley Benton would sound very different from what it copies, would have poor adjustment possibilities or misaligned components making a proper set-up impossible. I could have feared that the neck would warp or the pocket disintegrate with time. Frets would rust, make waves, fall off, tuners would grip, saddles would dent… Now, none of this happens but someone has to say so, just like someone is saying here that this cheap Rocktile Strat' copy is messed up. The bridge is set wrong and intonation adjustment is limited as a result: Another thing I have gathered from reviews is that the cheapest stuff of the Glarry sort usually comes with thick necks. I suppose it helps using cheaper wood without running into stability issues and this is the kind of things a direct comparison ought to point out.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 10, 2019 12:58:46 GMT
But, in my experience, a producer doesn't seem to mind what guitar you bring along as long as you've changed the strings recently (if you haven't he may well suggest you do). He's generally interested in whether you are wasting his and your time. This video was meant to sing the praise of the Precision Bass but all it really does is underline that the bass player is the guy whose sound barely matters as long as it's the same as that of the previous day because technicians can't be bothered spending one more minute fine tuning him: Speed and efficiency are very much the cornerstones of a studio. I was reading the other day how one producer, Hugh Padgham, likes to get a singer to double their vocals even when that singer says they hate that sound because, 'you never know', and getting anyone to sound the same the next day seems particularly difficult when comping a vocal. I'm surprised but not astounded to hear that even a bass can work out more tricky to sound the same two days running. In my own shabby recording setup I even manage to get differences that I can't explain on the same day. I just put it down to lack of training but, hey, maybe it's air gremlins?
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 10, 2019 13:21:51 GMT
I think many people act on autopilot and these kind of expensive vs cheap tests, will snap some people up from the autopilot thinking, where they take for granted that a super expensive guitar must sound so much better than a very inexpensive one. The real issue is just plain old and legitimate ignorance. Before I had experience with various guitars, I couldn't tell the difference. I would have been inclined to presume that a cheap Harley Benton would sound very different from what it copies, would have poor adjustment possibilities or misaligned components making a proper set-up impossible. I could have feared that the neck would warp or the pocket disintegrate with time. Frets would rust, make waves, fall off, tuners would grip, saddles would dent… Now, none of this happens but someone has to say so, just like someone is saying here that this cheap Rocktile Strat' copy is messed up. The bridge is set wrong and intonation adjustment is limited as a result: Another thing I have gathered from reviews is that the cheapest stuff of the Glarry sort usually comes with thick necks. I suppose it helps using cheaper wood without running into stability issues and this is the kind of things a direct comparison ought to point out. I don't know if ignorance is the right word? Possibly it could be for some. With other brands I can go to guitar shops and try them. HB I can't, I watched videos (Cory Mura etc), I read reviews and this forum before I joined. I took what I considered to be a calculated gamble, as it turned out I was very glad I did. They likes of the very cheap Glarry's etc it would be a bigger gamble. Now that said not everyone has good opinion of HB's as I have, possibly I've been lucky and got good ones? My old guitar teacher hated them when I took them with me to lessons. That I suspect was not because they were bad in anyway but because I wasn't buying the guitars from his shop? While I'm very greatful for what he taught me, I stopped taking his lessons after nearly a year. The reason for this was he would continually want to teach me beatles songs. I'm not a beatles fan and that is really not what I wanted to learn, it became a problem for me as I wasn't enjoying it. He would say the beatles stuff is the best way to learn, while I respected his opinion I didn't agree with it. I would keep telling him no more beatles to no avail, so I stopped the lesson's I couldn't see the point in paying for something I didn't like.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 10, 2019 13:47:59 GMT
I'm surprised but not astounded to hear that even a bass can work out more tricky to sound the same two days running. I understood that technicians are working with different bass players and bands on different days but as long as they all come with a P-Bass, it's next to no work to get the sound that does the job and no one cares for anyway.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 10, 2019 13:59:24 GMT
I'm surprised but not astounded to hear that even a bass can work out more tricky to sound the same two days running. I understood that technicians are working with different bass players and bands on different days but as long as they all come with a P-Bass, it's next to no work to get the sound that does the job and no one cares for anyway.You might have said a wrong thing there. Ask around. You'll find plenty that do. I have heard many times of folk who go to the P bass because it just seems to fit without much tinkering. I can understand wanting to get a different sound and see if you can get it to fit. No harm in experimenting. But a good dollop of music has nothing to do with experimenting, just getting the job done just like the last one. Of course there is the train of thought that says 'if you notice the bass it's not doing it's job'. I don't necessarily hold with it, every case is a new one, but I do understand what it means and why it can be valid.
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Post by LeoThunder on Aug 10, 2019 14:07:11 GMT
I understood that technicians are working with different bass players and bands on different days but as long as they all come with a P-Bass, it's next to no work to get the sound that does the job and no one cares for anyway.You might have said a wrong thing there. Ask around. You'll find plenty that do. I have heard many times of folk who go to the P bass because it just seems to fit without much tinkering. I can understand wanting to get a different sound and see if you can get it to fit. No harm in experimenting. But a good dollop of music has nothing to do with experimenting, just getting the job done just like the last one. Of course there is the train of thought that says 'if you notice the bass it's not doing it's job'. I don't necessarily hold with it, every case is a new one, but I do understand what it means and why it can be valid. I know bass players care for their sound but it seems no one around them does. It is meant to stand in its place in the mix and perform its duties, not to be interesting. There will be exceptions and some bands will have a prominent bass sound but in most cases, this instrument is the white shirt, not the tie.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Aug 10, 2019 14:14:48 GMT
I agree DefJef I thought it was poor teaching. I also asked for help and guidance on some basic music theory but it wasn't forthcoming. He did teach the basics very well, I'm toying with trying to find a new teacher but that could prove as difficult as choosing a guitar 😀 I do wonder if I'm picking up bad techniques without tuition. I could do with some help on bending techniques, the monkey see monkey do from watching video is not the best I think. Both your boys are the right age and being musically inclined I'm sure they will make the transition admirably.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Aug 10, 2019 14:35:46 GMT
I agree DefJef I thought it was poor teaching. I also asked for help and guidance on some basic music theory but it wasn't forthcoming. He did teach the basics very well, I'm toying with trying to find a new teacher but that could prove as difficult as choosing a guitar 😀 I do wonder if I'm picking up bad techniques without tuition. I could do with some help on bending techniques, the monkey see monkey do from watching video is not the best I think. Both your boys are the right age and being musically inclined I'm sure they will make the transition admirably. You're absolutely right, choosing the right teacher probably is as difficult as finding the right guitar. I'm sure guitarists are amongst the best for picking up bad techniques but at least those bad techniques may lead to some new techniques. I'm sure the first time someone performed a pull off it was considered very bad form. Maybe their finger slipped. What a great discovery. Some bad techniques can be fatiguing though, leading to cramps, so they are best ironed out. Or they may slow you down. It would be lovely to find a teacher who could look at anything you feel you have problems with to show you the perfect solution that sits well with you. Not someone who raps you on the knuckles for breaches in his code but who instantly seems to lighten your life. Surely it's possible to tell a teacher exactly what it is you want to improve upon. It's your money they are taking. If they think they are not up to it or you don't feel they are it should be possible to decline. I wish you luck in finding someone. Maybe a chat with a player you see playing bends well in a bar would be all it takes. You could trade a beer for a quick show and tell. In fact I'm fascinated to know what is causing you difficulties there right now. If you were to halt me on the way to the bar I'm sure I'd trade some tips for a pint of Lady Garfunkel's Fadge. That's not to say you wouldn't just learn a whole new load of bad techniques to add to your canon but at least I'd be up by a pint of Fadge.
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