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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 14, 2018 21:48:33 GMT
I know how you feel salteedog . Just as your brain approaches the truth something stretches it just out of reach. I had a hell of a job over that shorty bass string issue too and began to think, 'is it because I play guitar that I'm thinking the opposite of what a bass does?!'. But it can't be. I still feel as though a shorty bass needs heavier gauge strings to feel right just as a Mustang does. I have no practical experience of one but if it isn't so I cannot for the life of me understand why blablas says it isn't! I'm in the same boat as you. Surely shorty basses need thicker guage string in order to be low enough at the same string tension as a regular size bass?
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 14, 2018 21:55:21 GMT
Low E and A strings share the same saddle and when one is intonated properly the other isn't! Im tellin'ya this "compensated" saddle is compensated way too much!!! Grrrrrr....! The same applies to D and G and to the b and e ! but a bit less so! I play up and down the neck, I MUST have these stringies intonated! I hate to hit an open E and one strings is out of tune (not intonated properly)! Are you sure all is okay at the nut end? www.guitarsetup.co.uk/services/buzz-feiten/nuts-about-intonation/
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Post by lickosaurus on Feb 14, 2018 22:14:20 GMT
If I am not too late to the party regarding the string tension and feel thingy. When a string is plucked, the string fluctuates in the transverse direction (as picked up by the ... pickup) between the two points that it is fixed by such as between the nut and the bridge or the bridge and a fret. At those two locations any transverse fluctuations are "blocked" and the fluctuations are reflected in the "other direction". (picture curtesy of this guy: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Awilley)With the same gauge string, a gibson will need less tension to bring it to pitch than for a fender. As for thickness, more tension is needed to bring a heavier gauge string to pitch. You can try this out by tuning the low E string to A and compare the tension between the E tuned to A and the fifth string. When a string is bent, the string will experience this as a higher tension so the pitch increases. In the longitudinal direction, the string is fixed by the stop bar / ferrules / tremolo block and the tuners. Think of the string as a spring, a longer string will have more give for the same "bending effort". We do this to our ear, so we bend it until we reach a halftone or a tone higher. So that could explain, to at least a certain degree, the difference in how the bending feels between a top loader and string through tele since a string through tele string will travel farther up along the fret until we reach our intended pitch. A floating tremolo will then adds some play into the mix. So that is how I would tend to explain this.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 14, 2018 22:59:39 GMT
You're welcome to the party lickosaurus . Yeah we finally nailed that the tension between a toploader and a string through is the same. Well, salteedog and Vincent via Sue's video nailed it anyway. But as I was trying to say the 'feel' is one of a softer bend on the slightly longer through-strung tele which again, gawd bless her, Sue's video confirmed. The whole issue is one of nomenclature and semantics. The terms 'tension' and 'feel' and 'easier to bend' have all been thrashed out and we're now decided that 'tension' is the same, the 'feel' is softer and the bending 'feels' easier but is in fact harder (!) in that a shorter string 'feels' tighter to bend but only because it doesn't have to be bent as far to achieve a semitone pitch raise. At the same time a longer string is more forgiving as it gives greater room for error in achieving that semitone pitch raise. I think that sums up where we all agreed we were at. Think I'll save this to my favourites in case I forget it all again . As for thicker strings for shorter scale lengths (oh no, not scale lengths again) we are all baffled as to why one of this forum's most experienced bass owners insists it is the opposite way around. I wonder what JAC makes of it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 7:38:07 GMT
Can you flip the barrels? Are they just rounded on the other side? You could at least check whether unintonated would be better. I guess I could indeed try this ... (trying to find his tools ... )
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 7:42:00 GMT
salteedog I see what you mean by that article. Maybe I could sink the strings into the nut a tiny bit more but to be honest I use my ST's nut to compare the measures and I'm certainly there. Will try and work on it a bit more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 10:00:54 GMT
Can you flip the barrels? Are they just rounded on the other side? You could at least check whether unintonated would be better. You fekn genius DefJef This worked well on the E and A saddle The other two saddles seem better with the compensated side of the barrel though. Love it! Now I can start enjoying this guitar at last. The nut seems well cut. Maybe a bit more to be cut on the high e but nothing major! Now it's just to decide on new pickups to see if this guitar wind my heart as my ST did! Well done folks! This forum once again was helpful!
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Post by mageo on Feb 15, 2018 10:47:08 GMT
I'm surprised you're getting 'twang' from your Squier neck pickup mageo . Tele neck pickups are traditionally characteristically dark and low powered which has led to complaints from some players who attempt to improve it to their liking by removing the cover or simply replacing it with something else. Personally I love a tele neck pickup for my clean playing. A few modern jazzers love them too. Maybe yours has a ceramic magnet? They tend towards more toppiness. The 'twang' is normally associated with the bridge pickup and quite why is a can of worms that can only lead nowhere. Some say it's the presence of the plate beneath it, others the proximity of the pup to the saddles, or its hotness or the fingerstyle playing of traditional country artists, or maple or ash or......boom! It's also odd how the use of the term 'lipstick' is being applied more and more to the tele neck pickup. I reserve it for the Danelectro style pickups that were originally built using a pair of Revlon lipstick tubes. Perhaps it's because of the similar shininess. I know it has led to a fair few forum misunderstandings! Even dodgy internet purchases. I fear my explanation may not have been as correct as you state ! I referred to the lipstic pickup as the neck pickup as thats what i was told, so now I have been corrected ! but I do think the HB is a much darker tone, or more mellow than the Squire. Also when using the middle selection the quire lightens up to a desirebal sparkle, yet the HB still has a much more mellow tone, to besides I have found that I am using the HB more and more as I get to grips with my RC300 that I bought and am now getting used to it....Both guitars have maple necks but are differnet beasts....but then thats good, I have more tones to ay with.........luvley jubly.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 11:43:48 GMT
Glad I could help. Only sorry I was so distracted by Sue in her conservatory stretching chord, Brian May's scale length and blablas's shorty bass . I was just about to ask what strings you were on now: old or new, stretched or unstretched, when you managed to begin to solve things. I probably wouldn't have got round to asking you anyway as I just remembered I was about to research what 'scale' actually means! Stretched strings, 2 days old maybe 3 days old I found an old HB 9' e string so had no need to open a fresh pack of D'addarios! All in all its playabe but the tuning stability is not best on A and b strings. These particular tuners have lots of wobble/empty space/whats-the-bloody-word ... Will see if Thomann can replace those as a Warranty for me ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 11:55:17 GMT
email sent to Thomann ... lets see if they will replace these as they once kindly did for my old L-450Plus
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Post by JAC on Feb 15, 2018 16:57:56 GMT
Someone called? I have only skimmed through the thread, but " As for thicker strings for shorter scale lengths (oh no, not scale lengths again) we are all baffled as to why one of this forum's most experienced bass owners insists it is the opposite way around." What/whom/where are you referring to? The shorter the scale, the thicker the strings will need to be to obtain the same feeling of tension at the same frequency (tuning). If the scale is reduced by an large amount, it can be impossible to even tune to the intended note without going to larger strings. On basses that suffer from the "Floppy B" syndrome, a larger gauge string will help to rectify that feeling of floppyness. (Oh, and on the case of the issue with dual bridge saddles... well, Leo didn't get it right the first time )
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Post by JAC on Feb 15, 2018 17:02:45 GMT
However, having said the above... Piccolo Bass strings for a 34" bass, which is tuned to EADG in the same octave as a guitar, have a thicker gauge than a 25.5" scale guitar. Not by much, but they certainly are not thinner due to the longer scale (which logic tells us they should be). And so... your question is... ?
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