1,110 posts
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Post by dodger on Feb 14, 2018 15:44:45 GMT
Haven't really been following this thread but watched a youtube video where James Taylor was tuning his acoustic guitar and he was tuning it slightly sharp or flat depending on where the string was as the thicker strings sound flat or sharp (can't remember which)relative to the thinner ones - fascinating stuff - and how wonderful our ears are. I've noticed that the built in Fishman tuners on my HB acoustics tune the guitar slightly sharp to what I'm used to but my bandmate's guitar has the same tuner so it's close enough for jazz (we don't play jazz).
Music being music and not just about physics and mathematics I wouldn't use a metronome either as music should ebb and flow (while still staying true to time signatures if you know what I mean).
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 14, 2018 15:51:26 GMT
I wondered if that was so salteedog so I tried a different example chopping the strat at the 5th fret. Again it lines up from the 5th fret: Number of frets 17 16.856" scale length: fret from nut fret to fret 1 0.946" 0.946" (nut-1) 2 1.839" 0.893" (1-2) 3 2.682" 0.843" (2-3) 4 3.477" 0.796" (3-4) 5 4.228" 0.751" (4-5) 6 4.937" 0.709" (5-6) 7 5.606" 0.669" (6-7) 8 6.237" 0.631" (7-8) 9 6.833" 0.596" (8-9) 10 7.396" 0.563" (9-10) 11 7.927" 0.531" (10-11) 12* 8.428" 0.501" (11-12) 13 8.901" 0.473" (12-13) 14 9.348" 0.446" (13-14) 15 9.769" 0.421" (14-15) 16 10.167" 0.398" (15-16) 17 10.542" 0.375" (16-17)Then a standard 22 fret strat 22.500" scale length: fret from nut fret to fret 1 1.263" 1.263" (nut-1) 2 2.455" 1.192" (1-2) 3 3.580" 1.125" (2-3) 4 4.642" 1.062" (3-4) 5 5.644" 1.002" (4-5)
6 6.590" 0.946" (5-6)
7 7.483" 0.893" (6-7)
8 8.326" 0.843" (7-8)
9 9.121" 0.796" (8-9)
10 9.872" 0.751" (9-10)
11 10.581" 0.709" (10-11)
12* 11.250" 0.669" (11-12)
13 11.881" 0.631" (12-13)
14 12.477" 0.596" (13-14)
15 13.040" 0.563" (14-15)
16 13.571" 0.531" (15-16)
17 14.072" 0.501" (16-17)
18 14.545" 0.473" (17-18)
19 14.992" 0.446" (18-19)
20 15.413" 0.421" (19-20)
21 15.811" 0.398" (20-21)
22 16.186" 0.375" (21-22)It does seem to work wherever the chop takes place as I thought it ought to. Tried it at the 6th and same thing. I honestly can't see why it shouldn't work out.
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1,110 posts
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Post by dodger on Feb 14, 2018 15:51:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:58:14 GMT
dodger that vid is good indeed. I have seen this a while ago and follow his lead on low strings being slightly down tuned but high strings tuned to perfect pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 16:04:45 GMT
The new bone nut needs more work! I have used a D string (from 9's ) to slot the e, b and g strings and it turned out just fine. No issues with strange string noise and such! The only issue I've got now is my fingers ache from holding the string for such a long time! Still the slots need be slightly deeper I think! Will do it another day.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 14, 2018 16:12:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 16:18:30 GMT
This whole intonation is a compromise. And what our ears expect to hear adds to the problem. Never had this isssue with Start style nor LP style bridges (saddles), where I've got what I've expected to get/hear There is a reason behind Leo not using these TE saddles on the Start! Also when he moved to G&L there is not even one guitar made with a Tele saddles rather all saddles are independent AS THEY OUGHT TO BE Will try and fool around with these saddles for a while longer to see if I can make intonation sound good to my ear and if not new bridge with independent saddles will take their place! BTW, when intonation is spot on the open E chord sounds good but the open A does not! All chords sound good the higher I go and then again once I pass 12th fret and go higher with the drone and fret the string under it (or should I say over it) the intonation is off. I have a feeling these so called compensated saddles are a bit TOO MUCH COMPENSATED maybe! When I look at the distance on my ST saddles I can not see not even one string having such a space as on the TE saddle for e and b strings (which is default, I cant change that spacing) I think this old TE bridge thing is only still alive because some folks like the "old stuff is cool" idea Or maybe some people bit less sensitive to tonal difference. We never take our human hearing in account when discussing tone etc ...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 16:20:42 GMT
Oh I did make your file idea but I needed to go deeper into the nut slot and the wood allows only the string depth! I should have prepared the nut better before deciding to glue it in
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 16:45:14 GMT
Yet another e string (9's) went off while trying to intonate this bloody thing! I do slacken the strings before mowing the saddle especially backwards! This time the string broke on the contact where the string ball touches the top loader hole on the bridge! I think I will use the tip by Bonamassa's tech where he uses two string balls to avoid string bending over the string wrap (I hope this makes sense) Any who, I have no more 9's to spare so will have to open the pack of 10's instead
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 14, 2018 17:53:06 GMT
Oh I did make your file idea but I needed to go deeper into the nut slot and the wood allows only the string depth! I should have prepared the nut better before deciding to glue it in I pointed this out to intenselycalm . You don't want a deep groove, so once the file has gone string depth deep you take off the excess nut bone and start with the file again. Your absolutely right about mojo dictating practicality though with these tele saddles. I have uncompensated barrels on my teles and don't have intonation issues anyway, but of course separate saddles is the way to go really. I just had a rehearsal at next week's gig venue and realised that that particular room could do with less top so lowered my tele bridge pickup and the treble side of my neck pickup too. Now I only need to roll off the treble a bit to tame things rather than a lot! And you're right about our ears. It's almost pointless asking someone else if there is too much treble because they may not be as sensitive to it a someone else is. My mate's wife seems to find ALL music too loud. If we mixed for her it would sound terrible to me.
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 14, 2018 17:53:18 GMT
I wondered if that was so salteedog so I tried a different example chopping the strat at the 5th fret. Again it lines up from the 5th fret: ....It does seem to work wherever the chop takes place as I thought it ought to. Tried it at the 6th and same thing. I honestly can't see why it shouldn't work out. Bejaysus but you are right! I need to think about this to figure out why...I know it seems intuitive but ....maybe I spent so long convincing myself otherwise One problem with the guitar is that it's a linear instrument (albeit less of a linear instrument than a piano). Music, scales and whatnot are often best understood as circular concepts. Circle of 5th etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 20:49:07 GMT
Low E and A strings share the same saddle and when one is intonated properly the other isn't! Im tellin'ya this "compensated" saddle is compensated way too much!!! Grrrrrr....! The same applies to D and G and to the b and e ! but a bit less so!
I play up and down the neck, I MUST have these stringies intonated! I hate to hit an open E and one strings is out of tune (not intonated properly)!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 21:37:58 GMT
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