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Post by Vincent on Feb 21, 2019 17:50:13 GMT
It must be deflating for you, k2347. This is a monumental test of your patience and desire to own the guitar. Mine would have expired long before now. The way things sometimes can be you might even receive a notification from Thomann tomorrow saying it has been posted to you. I have never pre-ordered anything from Thomann before but the service has always been excellent.
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Post by k2347 on Feb 21, 2019 18:37:20 GMT
I did notice the majority of their Les Paul models are all back ordered also.This to me say's they are selling ton's of guitars.
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Post by oghkhood on Feb 21, 2019 18:42:58 GMT
Yes, if they are waiting for a said number of backorders to launch the serial, it is nothing but a lie because they can't know when or even IF the quota will be reached. Reason why I suggest to NEVER place a back order with no max lead time guarantee.
I consider this practice as dishonest, so do not help Thomann to play with this
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Post by Vincent on Feb 21, 2019 19:04:26 GMT
I did notice the majority of their Les Paul models are all back ordered also.This to me say's they are selling ton's of guitars. Trying to second guess Thomann's business model will render you more confused than they sometimes appear to be
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Post by k2347 on Feb 21, 2019 19:12:56 GMT
I will wait until April and if Thomann still give's me the runaround I will cancel and never deal with them again.2 of my friend's who ordered that same guitar cancelled already.
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Post by LeoThunder on Feb 23, 2019 16:17:01 GMT
People who expect top service at lowest price are bound to be disappointed. They can't have both. There are reasons why things come at different prices and they are not always just hype. Lowest prices always come with compromises. I suppose this is how Harley Benton models die, by the way. Leaving them on offer is a way of verifying demand and when back-orders fail to fill up, they can be discontinued. It makes a handful of customers unhappy and a few hundred others happy to buy what sells at rock bottom levels.
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Post by Vincent on Feb 23, 2019 19:28:04 GMT
LeoThunder I think I will refer you to oghkhood's comment four posts up. That is where I am with this pre-order way of doing business. If we were pre-ordering a Fender Stratocaster maybe the issue would not be so problematic. To add, it is one thing to lose a sale but it is a whole lot bigger when you lose a customer. They have lost k2347's two friends with this model alone. The larger picture would maybe reveal many more. Nobody can know exactly how many. But as you suggest, and I am sure you are quite correct, that Thomann's business model can withstand a percentage of customers closing the door never to return again (for now?). To further add, Thomann has grown from being a small family business in Germany to become one of the largest (if not the largest) musical instrument retailers in Europe. And for that I have so much admiration. Maybe they feel they are big enough. To your opening statement. I expect the first class service regardless of the price I pay for something. The price should be irrelevant.
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Post by k2347 on Feb 23, 2019 19:35:59 GMT
There are also 3 other guitar models I would buy if my Thomann experience on my first guitar was a good one.You are 100% correct.....price should have nothing to do with customer service.
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Post by Vincent on Feb 23, 2019 19:49:28 GMT
Never promise to deliver something if you cannot back it up.
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Post by blindwilly3fingers on Feb 24, 2019 1:37:34 GMT
The Thomann sales rank system is really only telling us what sells most. But not how many units of each guitar are sold, as far as I can make out? Each time I have ordered I've waited a few weeks until the item was in stock. I have not used the backorder route and don't think I ever would. I would be interested to know how many of each of HB's models sell. I know the returns and b stock affects this but a ball park figure would be handy.
As mentioned in other threads Thomann recently changed the OEM. Could this be affecting current stock levels? Perhaps certain models are made in rotation or when certain materials are available? Or maybe they are having QC difficulties?
I have noticed certain models seem to be short runs for example the red and blue MS 60's weren't around too long. The Brian May model seemed to be discontinued but reappeared.
As some of you rightly point out the price should not affect the customer service. If I buy a €1 or a €1,000 item I expect it delivered by the specified date and packaged in a suitable manner. If the company wants to take preorders it should fulfil that order or not offer it in the 1st place Imho.
Perhaps Thomann is struggling with supply and demand? I really don't know how popular HB's are? Could it possibly be Thomann created a monster they can no longer control in as much as a client relying on contractors? Tbh the logistics involved could be a nightmare with all kinds of scenarios?
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Post by LeoThunder on Feb 24, 2019 5:15:42 GMT
LeoThunder I think I will refer you to oghkhood 's comment four posts up. That is where I am with this pre-order way of doing business. If we were pre-ordering a Fender Stratocaster maybe the issue would not be so problematic. To add, it is one thing to lose a sale but it is a whole lot bigger when you lose a customer. They have lost k2347 's two friends with this model alone. The larger picture would maybe reveal many more. Nobody can know exactly how many. But as you suggest, and I am sure you are quite correct, that Thomann's business model can withstand a percentage of customers closing the door never to return again (for now?). To further add, Thomann has grown from being a small family business in Germany to become one of the largest (if not the largest) musical instrument retailers in Europe. And for that I have so much admiration. Maybe they feel they are big enough. To your opening statement. I expect the first class service regardless of the price I pay for something. The price should be irrelevant. I do not disagree on the matter at stake but your expectations are ridiculously overblown. The "customer is king" doesn't apply as you want it to and be very sure the European Number 1 doesn't mind losing one of its petty kings if it means serving a few more. Price is always relevant and pleasing everyone is always a losing bet. Pleasing more than you displease is the game.
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Post by LeoThunder on Feb 24, 2019 5:20:14 GMT
Never promise to deliver something if you cannot back it up. That is indeed a fault. I wonder if it's just a glitch, something that is falling through the cracks now because they are too busy to clean it up or if it is done on purpose to assess demand. The latter would be cynical but coldly effective.
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Post by LeoThunder on Feb 24, 2019 5:26:12 GMT
I have not used the backorder route and don't think I ever would. I would if I didn't care. Then I would think again and realise that if I didn't care, then I probably should not. Then I would see it on ebay and the game would start over
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Post by LeoThunder on Feb 24, 2019 5:44:54 GMT
As mentioned in other threads Thomann recently changed the OEM. Could this be affecting current stock levels? Perhaps certain models are made in rotation or when certain materials are available? Or maybe they are having QC difficulties? They have introduced quite a few new models last year: Fusion, Dynamic, extended range and multi-scale, new basses… I would suspect these have taken precedence over the back catalogue, the low selling part of which is relegated to the end of the priority list. In the worst case, some of these old models would have to be taken over by a new factory, making the whole business even less attractive. They ought to clean the slate and discontinue those they no longer want to commit to.
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Post by oghkhood on Feb 24, 2019 7:48:46 GMT
... and the provider is not the king too But yes, I agree with your analysis, saying that this backorder policy is the consequence of a logical policy, and not the result of a systematic search for cost killing, be it at the expense of going to far on customer service. But this is by no way a justification of what customer have the power to stop it, by simply not complying.
Things would be different if Thomann was proposing a backorder assorted with a limit date at wich they are engaging themselves to restock
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