1,773 posts
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Post by MartinB on Feb 12, 2018 19:59:48 GMT
Perhaps that 'into your face' sound that you are describing is the 'snap' that I mentioned I look for in an instrument on that other thread about what makes a great guitar. I always feel as though a tele sounds as though it is already going through some sort of pedal. Not sure which type - a chorus perhaps. There seems to be a whole lot of stuff going on in the sound of a tele that just isn't there in a Les Paul for instance. As you used to say, your tone knob is your friend and, I would suggest, so is your volume knob. I also wonder whether a tele wouldn't be best with an audio taper tone pot so that it has some effect instantly. I'm pretty sure mine are linear taper as they have little effect until the final bit of turn as I turn down the treble. It's handy for wah effects but sometimes it would be nice to hit that top end off instantly. Wonder how yours behaves? I feel a little like my tele bridge pup is coming through a wah set as a filter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 20:08:40 GMT
This tele certainly has Audio tapper pots because it acts instantly. My Roadhouse ST Harness has a linear tapper and only starts reacting when I come down to about 3. UPDATE, HUGE UPDATE! Ney!!! MOST ANNOYING UPDATE OF ALL TIMES!!! This Tele almost went thoruhg the window tonight!!! How come not even one of you Tele fans warned me that Teles cant intonate string gauge 9 ?! No wonder Leo went away from this annoying bridge and even with G&L he used separate saddles! To be able to intonate 9's I have to move the saddles ack but there are those 4 protruding bridge screws that stand in the way!!! I tried to place the saddles on top of the screws just to get a right intonation but string action is rocket high now! No issues with the high e and b only issues with G, D, A and E (only) ! This guitar must have 10' strings to be able to intonate properly! Damn this plank of wood! It really sounds good with the 9's but how do I remedy this issue? Must I buy another kind of Tele bridge now? ... damn it! Such a waste of new D'addario 9's !!! To add; I see Jim Campilongo using 9's BUT with a top loader bridge! Does it matter for intonation where the string ends are? Does that distance create difference in tension like for example moving saddles back and forth can? Either that is the secret to my issue or he has flat screws on his bridge so the saddles can easily pass by these?
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 12, 2018 20:38:14 GMT
Perhaps that 'into your face' sound that you are describing is the 'snap' that I mentioned I look for in an instrument on that other thread about what makes a great guitar. I always feel as though a tele sounds as though it is already going through some sort of pedal. Not sure which type - a chorus perhaps. There seems to be a whole lot of stuff going on in the sound of a tele that just isn't there in a Les Paul for instance. I feel a little like my tele bridge pup is coming through a wah set as a filter. Perhaps that is similar to the 'through some sort of pedal' effect that I was mentioning. There's a kind of phasing shimmer.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 12, 2018 20:47:19 GMT
To add; I see Jim Campilongo using 9's BUT with a top loader bridge! Does it matter for intonation where the string ends are? Does that distance create difference in tension like for example moving saddles back and forth can? Either that is the secret to my issue or he has flat screws on his bridge so the saddles can easily pass by these? This a questionable one for me. Theoretically the longer a string is the deeper it will sound so it needs a little more tension if it is held at both ends and plucked. But I can't help thinking some of this is then negated by the fact that a guitar string then has a saddle placed a short distance from the end and, in the case of a top loader, this is a smaller percentage of the the full string length than with a through loader. So where does that leave things? If both strings are wound to the same note? I always feel as though my through loader is easier to bend than my top loader so perhaps has less tension. And, of course, tension affects the neck relief which affects the intonation.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 12, 2018 21:04:52 GMT
This guitar must have 10' strings to be able to intonate properly! Damn this plank of wood! It really sounds good with the 9's but how do I remedy this issue? Must I buy another kind of Tele bridge now? ... damn it! Such a waste of new D'addario 9's !!! If you were keeping this and it really is a constant issue the simplest thing would be to move the bridge back a touch if the pickup cavity allows it and the string through holes remain clear to use. Otherwise try top loading it first to see if that solves any of your issues.
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Post by Vincent on Feb 12, 2018 21:11:06 GMT
Would it be possible to use countersunk screws?
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Post by kwis on Feb 12, 2018 21:13:07 GMT
Good shout
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 12, 2018 22:22:54 GMT
I never had a problem with intonation on my TE20 or TE52 and I use non-compensated saddles. Sure you cannot get it as exact as you could get with individual saddles but it's close enough especially considering all the bending one does and the other compromises that come with electric guitar design. The shared saddles contribute to the tele character too.
Anyway on my TE20 the screws are well out of the way of the saddles. On my TE52 the screws are a bit closer but they are seated pretty well. I use 10s on my TE52 and 9s on my TE20. I prefer 10s.
I had a look at the photos on the Thomann site and it appears that the screws on the Wilkinson bridge in the TE70 are closer to the saddles than in the other models. I'm surprised a that as I would have assumed they were pretty standard.
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 13, 2018 0:10:15 GMT
To add; I see Jim Campilongo using 9's BUT with a top loader bridge! Does it matter for intonation where the string ends are? Does that distance create difference in tension like for example moving saddles back and forth can? Either that is the secret to my issue or he has flat screws on his bridge so the saddles can easily pass by these? This a questionable one for me. Theoretically the longer a string is the deeper it will sound so it needs a little more tension if it is held at both ends and plucked. But I can't help thinking some of this is then negated by the fact that a guitar string then has a saddle placed a short distance from the end and, in the case of a top loader, this is a smaller percentage of the the full string length than with a through loader. So where does that leave things? If both strings are wound to the same note? I always feel as though my through loader is easier to bend than my top loader so perhaps has less tension. And, of course, tension affects the neck relief which affects the intonation. Length between nut and saddle, string guage and tension are the only factors at play as regards the pitch that is produced when plucking a string. But bending a string is a stretching action and longer strings (distance from tuner to string ball anchor) need to be stretched more to get the same increase in tension than shorter strings.
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DefJef
THBC Moderator
Due to musical differences I've decided I can't work with myself any more.
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Post by DefJef on Feb 13, 2018 0:32:54 GMT
It was the tension issue I was trying to address there saltee. I was trying to figure out if a longer string has more or less tension at rest. I'm thinking more but then less... or is it all evened out by the fact that the nut/saddle is a greater percentage away from the anchor points of the string? It's seeming now as though there is less tension on a longer string but that seems weird because a longer string would normally be pitched deeper than a shorter one so would need more tension to bring it to concert pitch. You could also say that bending a string is a tensioning action and, if a longer string began with less tension than a shorter string it would would stand to reason that it would be easier to bend but would also need to be bent further. In which case my feeling that bends are easier on longer strings is right in terms of feel but not in terms of efficiency. It also surely means there is more subtlety in the bending of a longer string. I tend to feel that element too. So the question remains, I suppose, does a longer string have more or less tension whan it is strung to pitch on a guitar?
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3,968 posts
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Post by salteedog on Feb 13, 2018 1:23:09 GMT
For an e string of particular thickness and scale length the tension in the string is exactly the same irrespective of whether it's a tailpieced ES175 or a LP JR with wraparound bridge. In other words the force the string is exerting on the tuners and tailpiece is the same. What is different is the lateral force/distance required to add x% to that tension. With bends you are applying a lateral force to the string - it kind of like a leverage situation - with the longer string (ES175) you need to travel further to cause that string to increase in tension by a fixed % than you would with a LP Jr. This wouldn't apply if the string was clamped firmly at the nut and saddle - In that case all guitars with same string gauge and scale length would feel identical. (Another way of thinking about it is to apply an extra x% of tension then you need to stretch the total string length by an extra x%..longer string then longer absolute distance to stretch it by the same %).
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